EPISODE 004 | ENTRY #018 — LEAH CARMICHAEL

The Artidex is an artist-centered multimedia archive and creative network documenting contemporary artists through signed Polaroid portraiture, photography, documentary film, and conversation. Each participating artist becomes a numbered ENTRY within a growing physical archive that preserves not only their work, but the person, story, and moment behind it.

The Artidex Podcast extends that archive through long-form conversations, giving artists space to share their lives, creative journeys, and perspectives in their own voices. Through The Artidex Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, this work expands beyond documentation into direct artist support through grants, sponsorships, creative opportunities, and community investment.

For ENTRY #018, Gina sits down with makeup artist Leah Carmichael, whose work has helped shape the beauty and music industries for more than two decades. A former Global Makeup Artist for Kat Von D Beauty, Leah has worked across international beauty events, music videos, touring, and artist grooming, with credits connected to Beyoncé, Deftones, AFI, and Ceremony.

Having first connected online before traveling and working together in 2016, Gina and Leah reflect on their shared history, Leah’s lifelong commitment to makeup artistry, and the experiences that shaped her unmistakable creative identity. Their conversation explores technical mastery, individuality, beauty culture, authenticity, and what it means to build an enduring career without compromising who you are.

If you enjoy thoughtful conversations about creativity, independent artists, and the stories behind the work, subscribe and follow along as The Artidex documents, connects, and supports artists, one ENTRY at a time.

Follow The Artidex on Instagram: @theartidex • @ginafrey
Follow Leah Carmichael on Instagram: @iamleah

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

I was gonna make a joke like welcome to call her daddy But no actually welcome welcome to the Artidex podcast Leah Carmichael Hello Oh my gosh Thank you so much for agreeing to do this I was really nervous when you asked me. Why?

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Um I haven't done anything like this in six years. Six years? That's pretty that's pretty significant. Seven years? But it's how long has it been? I don't know. And you said we haven't seen each other in ten years, so that's even crazier.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

I feel like it's been ten. I feel like it was 2016 that we were doing all the the Kat Von D stuff.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

I was only 31.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

32 if 10 years ago. How sad.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

It's crazy. It's insane how fast time flies. Yeah. It's actually insane. But yeah, I think I was just going into medical school. Like I don't think I had even started.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah, Dr. G.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah. I hadn't even started med school yet. I was I like I think I got like I was in, but I hadn't like started while we were doing that. And then like I kept trying to do it while I was in medical school.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

I remember that being really crazy for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Like batshit.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah, I don't know how I did that. But so for a while I like pulled it off, and then once I was in my second year, I was like, okay, I can't I can't do this anymore. But um thank you for agreeing to do this. Of course. I'm gonna be able to do that. I love the I love the excuse to be able to see you. I know. I've missed you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I've missed you too. It's been way too long.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Way too long. And you're obviously one of my favorite artists, so you're one of the first people I thought of when I was putting this project together in general. That's really sweet.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Always my goals, makeup wise. So um, and it was really it's nice because this is like a subject I can speak on very comfortably with you, and like I feel like we can have have a fun chat. But I did write some questions for you as well. Okay. Um things that I don't know, and then I'm also probably gonna ask you things that I do know, but I think would be like interesting for you to speak about. Um, but I usually like to take people back to childhood and like how you first got started in like even just like art, even if it wasn't makeup, or like what were your first mediums and like how does that translate to makeup?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Um well, since as far back as I can remember, um, I think in I think it's from obviously not kindergarten, but uh what it elementary school era, every single thing of the like what do you want to be when you grow up was always makeup. Um a couple of them say beauty or hair, but most of them were makeup. And I don't know where that came from as a child. Um I did watch a lot of weird shit on TV, um, but I I couldn't have noticed like the things that would make you want to be a makeup artist that young. Um but later, like high school era, is when I well, before that, but high school era is when I really honed in on um looking identical to Robert Smith. Like teasing my hair and wearing a smoky eye and a red lip every single day. And like Lost Boys, Beetlejuice, you know, veneal, it all of that just that's what really made me want to do makeup. Um it it stemmed a lot from music, uh Susie, Blondie. It was it was just all very much my vibe, and I just wanted to do makeup that looked like that, which was not normal for somebody in Huntington Beach.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

What was what was the vibe like there? Were you the only one goth you found?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

No, I mean there was a few, but I definitely didn't look like most everyone in high school. Everyone was, you know, cheerlead, cheerleader, yeah, beach, beach bunny girls, and that was just never me.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, we were we were very I was similar. Like Long Island was like Ugg boots, ug boots are death, you know. It was like that was what it was.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

I've never had Ugg boots. Me neither. Ever. No. I'm very happy to say I've never I've never not that it's a bad thing, but I that's how I knew I was on the outside. Yeah, I was like, I don't got the boots. I don't got the boots.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

It's that was what it was. Um but wow, that's actually insane because I feel like a lot of kids when they're like filling those forms out, like nobody says, Yeah, it's like lion tamer or like astronaut. Yeah, something that's crazy that you actually wrote.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

And I and I actually didn't know that until like in 2023 was forced to go through like everything in my life, and I found all these books from school. I was like, oh man, that's so crazy that it went that far back. So I remember want knowing I wanted to do it later, but as a young kid you don't really remember, remember.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

But that's that's gotta be like trippy to find. Yeah, it was cool. Um, so so do you feel like you were even I know you're really cultivated more of like the smoky eye red lip combo, which it's awesome to hear that that developed as early as high school because that is still very much like a signature look for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

I looked crazy. It wasn't like a nice what was what was like different?

SPEAKER_01 5:22

What did you change over like the past few decades?

SPEAKER_00 5:26

It was just different then, like obviously social media changed the way a lot of people do makeup because there's so many everything is so filtered, and back then there was no option to be filtered, and there were less options tool-wise, shadow-wise, complexion. Like we we were so young, and I just it was just there's no base, there's no anything, and then there's you know the frosty vanilla under the eye, and the eyebrows were look like Nike check marks and or swoosh marks.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

I had blocks, like Lego character, like it was actually insane. Like I look back and I'm like, what was I thinking?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

I have such a hard time doing throwback anything posts from that time, except like a small portion of time, because the eyebrows were so insane.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Insane. What was wrong with everyone?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Like I feel like that era too, like the we were just I was just talking about how for 40s, 50s, 60s, I mean even 70s, like everything was so cool. Everything looked like outfits, the the makeup. I know it was probably weird in real life, but nobody's brows looked like that. They were not this far apart. They were not, you know, it was it was like a 2000s thing, and it was it was so brutal.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah. It it really it really went south.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

And I just and I don't even fully know like where the s the original source of like I mean the nineties brow, I I love a nineties brow, I love a thin brow, but I've always had thicker brows, so I could never so I you know you shave or tweeze or whatever, but yeah, did you ever paint at all?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Because they're so similar.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Um, a little bit. My grandma isn't she was an artist, she's she's still alive, but she was an artist. She doesn't paint anymore, but uh she had an art studio upstairs, so I would paint, but I never was super super into it. I was it was always just makeup.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

That's impressive. That's like amazing.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

I tried, I tried to get into it, but it didn't grab you. It didn't really grab me.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah. So what were you you like when you were was it just straight up carbon? Like you were just raw dogging carbon onto your lid with a finger? Right. There was a flip. We're talking about MAC cosmetics, the original matte black eyeshadow.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

It was always carbon and it would always fall.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Oh, fall, it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

If you don't have a base, you should never, it would always fall, but I also still till this day do face first and eyes last, and that's so risky when you're doing a heavy eye. I've I've now mastered it to where that does not happen unless I'm using like a cheap product. But I why did I do that for so long at that time because it's just it's just black, doesn't matter how you blend it, it just looks so dirty.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

I know what you mean though. I I feel like once you get in a habit, you can't break it. Like those things came out, the um I'm a face first too, and it's like wrong.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah. I and I I personally I for me working in retail when you're doing people's makeup, yes, it's so hard to start with eyes because that's it looks so unfinished through the whole thing, and you can tell that they're not trusting the process. Yes. And they're like, I look this looks wrong. So when you do base first and then you do that, it's they look, it's it's just more, you know, they have more faith and more because they see they see things like happening in a way that they can process, and it's not just like otherwise it's like trust me, and they're like fuck.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah, no, I I know what you mean. You like see their facial expression in the mirror, they're like panicking, like looking around. You're like, just hang in there. Yeah, I promise it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Um, okay, so carbon. What was your red lip?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Like, what was your first my first red lip was Ruby Woo. Okay. Uh Ruby Woo. I've always used a brow pencil for liner. That's weird. I've never done a red matching liner. It's always been a darker pencil with a red lip.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

That's really cool. Do you still you still do that? I still do that. Yeah. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

I've tried to not do that. It just doesn't feel it feels weird. I feel like I look weird, which I know it's just me, but it's like I'm gonna do that. No, it's honestly it's it's one of my favorite things. And it's also anytime we I'm out somewhere where they're like, I love whatever is happening. Yeah, it's like the number one.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

No, but you're like blowing my mind because that makes perfect sense because it's such a high wax content.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Yes. So then it's not gonna bleed at all. It stays so much longer. You're genius in like a cool tone, it's kind of 90s, but which is back.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

I used to do the clear. The clear, you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

The clear liner around the forever one? Did you ever use that one?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

I don't even remember what brand it was, but like the I used to go around the border with like the clear like wax.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah, and you just get little little bumps everywhere if you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

It just yeah, and then just like texturally, it like made the edge look weird, but like that was what I thought you were supposed to do at the time.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

No, carnival.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Um I feel like you were either like color-wise uh in the Ruby Woo cam, but I feel like I was a Russian red.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

I actually like Russian red more than Ruby Woo. Right, but it doesn't it didn't look right with the smoky eye at that time. Now I would just wear Russian red on its own because I don't ever really wear eye makeup anymore, but Russian red is superior.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

I think it's in my opinion, yeah, texturally as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yeah. I think it's more fl I know everyone's like Ruby not doesn't look bad on anyone, but I feel like Russian red is just so much more flattering.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

I think so too. I think it's more rich. I think Marilyn Monroe would agree with us. I would agree. I think so. Um I had like old viral products since we're like doing throwback stuff. I rem I remember just like there were I don't feel like that's a thing anymore, but maybe maybe it is, and I'm not on TikTok. But I feel like in like the early days of like Instagram in the formative period when it was still fun and not terrible, yeah, and not ruled by algorithms and made sense, there were like these like grail products. And I know there's still viral products, but it was different, it was more like universal where everyone knew about the same thing, uh-huh, and it was like a slower pace of turnover. Yeah now I feel like it's like from one day to everything is so fast now, it's impossible. You can't even keep up. But like Hula Bronzer and like the the po i potion from Urban Decay had it, they've had their moments.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

What was the um Marisa would know this, can I ask her? Yeah. Marisa, what's the blush? Oh, NARS, NAR orgasm. Orgasm. Yeah. That one. So you know, see what I mean? Like I knew exactly what you were talking about. And there's a lip, a NARS lip that she also used to do. Um Cruella? Is it Cruella? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. No, I swear. No. It was Cruella. Oh, maybe not. Maybe I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

These were so I so iconic though.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Are you getting back into frosts?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yes. I love well, it's just because I'm 41 years old. No, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

No, it's not because of that, because I also love it. My mom is a frost viotch.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

My all through high school, that's all you had. All you had was frost. And I I have to find these photos for you because they're so crazy looking. But it was, I mean, even carbon because it was mixed with frost was just frost. It just looks so dusty. But I had Mac vanilla from the tub, which I still own, by the way. The same one, the first one I ever bought. I still own the first three shadows that I ever bought in the pot and pressed, and the first lipstick I ever bought from MAC. What was the first one? Um, folio.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Amazing color.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, and I would wear it with the a dark line, the brow pencil. But um the vanilla, I would put all over my face, and it was just like packed from here. You're saying like the loose pigment, right? Yeah, the pigment. Wow. Vanilla.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

So now that frosts are back, I love it. They're better. It's all I want to use.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

But Melt just did a frost lipstick. It's called like ghosted.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Melt? Yeah. Oh, I wear it. Yeah. Ghosted, the pink one. Yes. Oh, I love it. It's so good. Yeah. It's phenomenal. It's so it's so good. I bought that whole line. Like when they did those, they dropped those pinks.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

I was like, I you got me.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

That one I wear very often with chestnut lip liner. It's so good. It's such a pretty pink.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

It's phenomenal. Yeah. Um, how did you get hired at Mac? And like when did you start?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

I never worked at Mac.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

You never worked at Mac? No. Wait, where did you work retail?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Makeup Forever. Okay. I was at Makeup Forever for seven years, uh, which was the longest I've ever been at like a retail job, and I loved every second of it. Makeup Forever was like I in high school, Mac was everything. And I always wanted to work at Mac and you know, it just didn't happen. And I don't even think I ever applied at Mac to be I just was there all the time. But um I got a job at Makeup Forever and I started just on the floor, not doing makeup, uh, which was not ideal, but they send you to training, they send you to makeup school. Uh and they it has so much artistry smooshed into the like training because it was known as an artistry brand and body painting and you know, all of those things. I learned more there than I've learned ever in makeup school, in real makeup school and on my own. Like techniques, finishes, water, oil, all everything. I learned at Makeup Forever. And um I worked in South Coast Plaza in a freestanding store for seven years.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

I was gonna ask, because I've I've only ever seen Makeup Forever online or in Sephora.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yeah, I didn't know they were we were in a freestanding store, and it was it was aside from being in a mall and working in Orange County, it was very fun.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

That's awesome. Yeah, I didn't know that. I thought I thought you also worked at Mac. No. See, I I worked at Mac the day after I turned 18.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Did you? Which one?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Um, it was Smithhaven Mall on Long Island. Um those makeups were fun. It they it was it was so fun, so intense.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

I bet.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

There was like a whole culture to it, like it was kind of intense.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

I mean, I feel like at in the days of I mean, Mac was everything.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

It was, it was everything.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

If you were not wearing it and you wanted to be part of the makeup scene, it was like 100%.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

I still have like old brushes, like and it's so funny, they look like like just half of them like the bristles of like 20 years old, and they're just like three.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

But they still work.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

And actually they're kind of phenomenal that way. Like when they've been beaten up, it like almost ends up being a little bit better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Um I agree.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

But yeah, they told me they weren't hiring, and then I like went home and printed out a resume and like dressed in full black with like a cape and like platform shoes. A cape? Yeah, I had like it was like a shawl. Okay, it was a shawl and dressed like in full black, full beat, and like went up to the counter and I was like, I know you said you're not hiring, but when you are, call me. And they like called me the next day.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

It was the cape.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

It was the cape for sure, and maybe the chunky boots.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Definitely the chunky boots.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Okay, so what are your I know we're kind of talking about like old grails, but like do you have any current ones that's newer?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah. Um I mean they're they're kind of boring.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

I don't think so. What what is it?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Uh I my favorite, my everyday go-to is the Fenty Beauty Invisimat powder. Okay. It's just translucent, clear powder. Um I wear that every day. The YSL mascara, I don't lash.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

It sounds that sounds correct, and if it's not, that's the same. I might be wrong. But it sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

It's everything to me. Uh I sadly do not have a go-to red lip anymore because they've all been discontinued. Dude. All of them. Every single one.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Rest in peace, Lime Crime Man. Red Velvet was so good.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Red Velvet was really good. Uh Outlaw was my favorite. It's what I wore religiously. I know. And then when that was gone, there was um there was another red that that we made, but that's gone too. And then the Sephora collection one, I started buying, and then they got rid of that one. So now I've been using the Fenty one, but it's just which is very it's still very nice, but it's it's it's so sad when you get like really attached to one. Yeah. But the translucent powder is my go-to every day.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Okay, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to check that out.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

It's life-changing.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Is is it is it like a finishing powder or a setting powder?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Um, it's a pressed translucent powder. You can use it whatever, however, yeah. I use it in on myself, but I also use it in my kit, especially with male grooming.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yes, like I feel like you've been doing a lot of male grooming.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

I feel like it's all I do now.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yeah, I was gonna segue into this, but like I think this is a great opportunity because it's coming up. Yeah. Yeah, I've noticed that. I feel like you're going hard on the male grooming.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Which I love. Uh I feel like it's so much harder than normal beauty makeup. Well, it it used to be. Um, and it I would say that men are much easier than women, but they're not.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Elaborate, please. I'm very interested.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

I mean, they don't want to some of them, a lot of them are not used to wearing makeup unless they're, you know, much older and wear makeup all the time. So if you put makeup on them, they start spiraling because they think they're wearing too much makeup and they don't know. And so then you start questioning yourself, but it it's fine, it's always fine. But um, with women, it's just they want to wear makeup. They want to wear a lot of makeup, they know it's gonna change some things.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, you've done AFI a lot, Deaf Tones, yeah, ceremony, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

So badass. Anthony is a lot of fun. Uh he gets obviously normal glam.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

A standard glam.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

And it's fun because the rest of the band just is normal male grooming.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Dude, have you done a lot of facial hair?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Like fake facial hair or going on over facial hair.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

I mean like, well, because like I've only done male grooming one time.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Oh, and they had a lot of facial hair?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Well, they had like pat gaps, and so I was like You're trying to fill it in. Hand painting in like little hairs, and it's insane because it was like it was the weekend when I was 22. And it was the craziest situation because I was assisting you know Kaylee Kennedy.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah. I was assisting her on when Kyle was directing, and he was supposed to have had his makeup done, but because she had to leave, she had to leave to go to another job, and he washed it all off in the trailer and like went and took a nap, and then he still had scenes to shoot, so he's like, Alright, I'm ready, and like had to. Redo his whole makeup from scratch and make it look similar to what she had done, and I was like not so you had to draw in the facial hair. I I did, I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

I've never I've I've filled in like small patches, but not any just like a little nothing crazy. Yeah. Um the the one that's the hardest for me that I've seen on T especially on TV, I notice the most because on men you can tell that they're wearing so much makeup here and here, and then if they have facial hair, you can see all the red underneath.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Mmm.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

And that drives me nuts. Or the twilight issue where it's just here and then their ears are like flaming red.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Like you gotta always get the ears.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

What do you do about underneath the facial hair?

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Um, I go in with like a little brush, like the tiniest brush, and go in. Otherwise, that's all you see. Once the light hits, it's like makeup and then just red or that's crazy. But I've never had to do like a full patch.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Oh no, no, it wasn't that extreme. I just was like, you know, enhancing the natural beauty.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Like Dave right now has a full Davey has a full mustache long situation going on, but it's not not hard. Yes. Just around the mouth.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Do you do are you like sculpting it with like a a wax or anything?

SPEAKER_00 23:26

No, he uh I only do his braids and his complexion now. Um we don't do eyebrows anymore.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

We do he does his own mustache and how did you okay, so how did you segue into the male grooming?

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Um I've actually always kind of only wanted to do male grooming. Uh that's crazy. Which is really weird.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

It's not weird. It's not it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

For me, for me, because the the the looks and vibes that I always were more drawn to were so extravagant and eccentric. And then later I was like, oh, I actually really only want to do this. And not because I thought it would be easier or it just something about it was more challenging for me, so I just wanted to try it, and then once I did it, I was like, Oh, I kind of only want to do this, but you know, I feel like it takes a lot of restraint and like balance, and then yeah, I know what you mean, like the men because they don't wear a lot of makeup, I could see absolutely how they would be like more particular or yeah, just like more wary. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Um, I have an interesting question for you. Okay, because I am retired. I was always so curious because I knew it would happen eventually, that I would kind of just not really do makeup professionally anymore. Um, and I was always like, I wonder what kind of like normal makeup girl I'm going to be. Because you become like a normal person. And so I was like curious to hear what do you think? Because things have changed about the way that I approach makeup as like a normal person versus like how I felt about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Versus old Gina?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah. So it's really interesting. Like, what like what would you think will always stay the same? And like what would you think will change? Like, what do you think is gonna you're gonna be doing the same in like 20 years?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

On myself or other people? On myself, on yourself, yeah. Well, I think uh what a lot of people assume about me because my life became a lot bigger when I was with Kat Bondi Beauty, is that I wore a lot of makeup, a lot of colorful makeup. Um, and yeah, I did wear smoky eye and a red lip all through high school and most of the time, but that wasn't really my vibe. I don't like when I was at Makeup Forever, you know, you have to wear different looks every day, you have to wear a lot of makeup every day, and you just kind of get into that. And then I went from Makeup Forever to Kat Vondi Beauty, and I was wearing so much makeup, and we had to be wearing the makeup that was within the brand. Yep, and you just kind of get used to looking like that all the time, and I looked fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

I no, you did not. I did.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

I looked beautiful, I looked crazy.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

We're gonna have to put like throwback pictures of us together.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Of us together in front of the white limo.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yes. I I feel like we were rock stars, like I feel like we were the backstreet boys.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

It was it was a very fun time. It was a very fun time, but I'm iconic time. I don't ever the second I didn't have to do that job. Yeah, I if I didn't ever have to wear makeup again, fine. Like I hate wearing complexion. I I wear a red lip. That's what I've always worn. Yeah, I've been doing that since I discovered makeup. I think that will always remain the same. I think when I'm 90 years old, I'll still be wearing a red lip and mascara. I I certainly hope so. I don't think that'll ever and it'll look insane, but it'll be awesome. And I think that will be the one thing is I'll just I'll always have a red lip.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

But that was the the one major thing is af after that ended and I stopped wearing all of that. I know there's a lot of other reasons, but I lost so many followers.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Really?

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Oh my god, I had 200,000, I have 95.5 now.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

And I don't well, I don't post tutorials anymore. I don't post three times a day with all these different shadow looks or bright, you know. I had like a certain follower, and it was that look, that vibe, and that's just not really me.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

So that's crazy. People ain't loyal, man. That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Yeah, it's okay. It it it is okay, but it's it is it is wild because I guess Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

I mean, anytime I post anything, it can be a look, it can be personal. I mean, it people engage with me more when it's personal, yeah. Which is a little sad because my job is makeup, and there's makeups that I post where people don't engage at all, they don't care, which some people do care, and I always appreciate it, but most of the time no nobody cares.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah, I I it's just so hard because there's so much noise. Yeah, I think that's a huge part of it. It's like it's just we're like hi it's so hyper saturated now.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Well, yeah, especially and if I'm not posting like banging shit out all the time, nobody's paying attention. Nobody like if I post once a month and it pops up, nobody's like, oh my god, she finally they're just like okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Well, I also think that the the algorithms at large devalue the posts when you're not consistent.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

It's this whole I also don't do TikTok. I don't I'm struggling to. There's too many, there's too many things. I know I need to for my if you know for work, but it's it's there's so many things.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

It's it's very overwhelming and it's very discouraging, and I think this is like very universally felt amongst a lot of artists of all mediums, but makeup really I would argue with Instagram, makeup in particular as a field got clobbered.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Like completely changed everything. Um but you know that's a that's a whole thing. Um what are some of your favorite makeups that you've done? Like your like things that you look back on that you're like, I love that I did that. That was my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Um I have a few.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

I want them all.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Tell me. Uh some of them nobody will ever see, unfortunately. Um that's okay, you can describe it. But I uh one of them was uh Davy did a show at the forum for uh Sing the Sorrow. Um it was just he was in his it was when he had the sharp brows and the the braids and that uh we did it hundreds of times, but that particular night it was just like so on point and I loved it. Um and then I'm trying to figure out how I can explain this. Um you know Blake. Yes, okay. So Blake and I and a a lot of a big team did this uh we worked on this thing together and it was very long and uh I keyed it and I had the opportunity to have uh someone help me on one of the looks and uh it was a full face design with just pearls and it was so beautiful. It took each model took three hours, and there were it was just the most stunning thing I think I've ever done.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Do you have a picture of it? I'll show you.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

I'll show you. Yeah, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Is it something that can't come out?

SPEAKER_00 31:04

No. Nobody will hopefully, hopefully one day, but okay. Nobody nobody will see it. A lot of the looks on on that thing were we didn't have very much time, but I feel like that's usually when I do my best, is when it's like you have 10 minutes and it's crazy body glitter or something is usually when I'm on it. Um but we it felt like a year, and there were so many different looks and so many bodies, and uh they were the coolest makeups.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

What kind of project was it? Are you allowed to say?

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Uh it was like a music thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah. But it it it's very unfortunate that we haven't seen it, but but I did it and it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Speaking of glitter, you I was trying to scroll back in time because this is a long time. You know what I'm gonna ask about.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

I do.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Uh you you were like the master of like the full home to do.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

You know who got me that? Who's Marisa? Did really? Yes, she did.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Shout out.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Amazing. Um, so actually that was 2014. Um, so there's this woman. She's my idol. Her name is Francesca. Um, if you don't know who she is, you should definitely look her up. Okay, amazing. Um she is like my mother. I love her. She is the most talented woman ever to exist in makeup. Uh she's she does share, she's done Madonna, Beyonce, like every Elizabeth Taylor, everybody. Um, but she was uh doing Beyoncé for this for the MTV Music Awards. That's what it was.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

And um Marisa put me on this to work with her, which was a dream because of who she was. And uh I knew it was going to be crazy, but I didn't know it was gonna be that crazy. Um there was I believe 16 dancers.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Um I didn't know it was that many. I thought it was like four.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

No, there were sixteen dancers and then four additional dancers for a different look.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Uh, but it was full head to toe with uh like a natural glam body glitter.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yes. Um it was like a cat suit of body glitter. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Like liquid latex, like your every inch of your and we had a run-through day the day before, and I wasn't allowed to have an assistant for any of it. Oh my god. Um just it was just so crazy. Uh and obviously it it was a long time ago, and I just was like, fuck it, I can do it. I don't care. Uh and the run through was so insane. I have touched places on people that I never thought I would touch with baby oil and glitter, and I cut hair from places that I didn't think I'd ever have to cut hair from. Uh it was so disgusting, but so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, I mean, I just remember this video of you like on your hands and knees with your hands just like going like this. Yeah, there's like a wall.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

There's like a glitter, there's a behind-the-scenes video that's actually still I just recently found it on YouTube and it it's still there, and it's me covering somebody in glitter.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

I think that's what I'm like it's burned into my brain actually.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

I've done two because uh when I joined Kat Von D beauty, she had me recreated on somebody, but it was black glitter. Yes, okay. Yeah, I do have that too. Okay. This one there was 16, and I had to have it done very, very fast. Uh so the second day when you know I I did it, we did it, but it was like not done the way that it needed to be done, so I was able to bring Tara with me. Thank God, who was also working with me at Makeup Forever.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

What?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

I didn't know that. That's how we met. That's crazy. That's how Tara and I met was at Makeup Forever.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Wow, that's mind-blowing. I didn't know that. I thought it was through Kat.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

No. That's crazy. She met Kat through me through Makeup Forever.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

How did you meet Kat?

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Um I met Kat in 2000. I have to refer to Marisa again. Where'd she go? I don't know. We worked at a place on Melrose called Forgotten Saints, Marisa and I, in 2007. Okay. Damn. 2007. Um, where they dressed a lot of celebrities. It was like a lot of leather, a lot of stuff like that. Um, but she came in. I met her through there. I met her on Melrose. Um she had the best shoe collection, and I asked her about her shoes, and then we kind of just became friends from there. But she also knew Lindsay because he had been on the show, he had tattooed her, or she had tattooed him. So but her and I had been friends ever since.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

That's crazy. I did not know that you and Tara were at Makeup Forever.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

How so how long after you did she start? Like how many years were you guys together actively in there?

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Seven years. We were we got hired, we got hired like a few months apart.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

That's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

So we so we worked together a really long time because then we were went to Cav Vondi Beauty together after that as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

She's she's incredible as well. She's iconic. The graphic liners, like she's so talented.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Insane. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

I did one time, like a like tribute to her where I did like I did like electric orange with like blue splatter. Nobody could ever I could never oh no, I didn't come close, but it was like in in honor of because she's so I couldn't I could never recreate any of the I would try.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

She just has she's a painter, like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Her brain is on another, it's on another level. Yeah, it's pretty, pretty wild. Um so with the ones that were the original 16, was it just like silver and gold? Because I feel like I'm thinking of the ones maybe that you did for cat.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Um well I ended up doing it a few times because after we did that, uh the ones for the um maybe it was silver. It was it was silver with like uh other colors in it, like holographic colors, I think, or maybe it was gold. It might have been both. I feel like it was both. Because after that, I did a pink one with her for uh makeup convention, and that was that was uh that was even harder than the full body because it was bald cap, full face, the whole thing. But um, but that one we did the 16, and then they had to be able to dance in it and perform on stage, like naked. What would it do? And it couldn't move.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

What did you do?

SPEAKER_00 38:24

I just held my breath spray. Did you have oh we used baby oil, gel, and glitter and just mix it together. And when you put it on, it I mean it's it's on. It's you have to like cut it off. It stays. It dries down from uh it doesn't dry, but it's like really tacky. Uh so it it stays.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

That's insane that it doesn't move.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah, it it looked like like if it moves, there more of it moves into place. Like it's the best way to do a a glitter, in in my opinion. And it it does still get everywhere. If you go to the forum and walk around the back, there's still there's still glitter in the floor.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

I was gonna I was gonna ask how long it took you to get the glitter out of everything.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

I see it every time I go back there. There's glitter in the hallway still. That's wild. And then we had to do these four additional girls because they were down. Um do you know David Gilmore is a body painter? He's very talented, but he was he was um airbrushing them and there wasn't enough time, so we had to just jump in and do the additional other girls. But that was the first time that I had worked for her, and that was like it was the coolest at that time. It was so cool.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

If you didn't do makeup and you had to have a secondary career or like a parallel universe trajectory, like what would you do other than makeup?

SPEAKER_00 39:47

I know that's a really hard question for you because clearly it honestly is a very hard question because there's so many times where I'm like, I don't even want to do makeup anymore. But I don't want to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Yeah, you're like I would I would like to just be retired actually on a beach.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

I don't want to do anything. I want to be home with my cats and I want to play Mario Kart with Marisa, and I so video game developer. I would no, I would just love to play Mario Kart, a professional Mario Kart player. But during the pandemic, I was you know, from when I had Damien until the pandemic, I had always worked like three jobs and then had and then I went to makeup forever and was only doing that, and then Kat Von D beauty, but I've never stopped. Like it's always been a hustle. And when the pandemic hit and I literally was forced to stop, I told myself, I don't ever want to do this again. I don't ever want to work like that again.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Ever. I don't care. I I'll be homeless. Like I don't ever want to do that again. Um but and I and in that time I had so much time to focus on myself and my mental health was so terrible. I was so sick, I was so overweight, and I never saw my son, I never saw Lindsay. It was like it was horrible. So when I was forced to stop, I was like, oh, that's why am I doing this?

SPEAKER_01 41:27

I yeah, not sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

No, I I'd rather work at a coffee shop and have you know real life, yeah, work-life balance. When I get offered these jobs where I can't resist taking them, it's like I can't work at the coffee shop because then I'll have to quit the coffee shop to take the one day that makes up for the month. But I just, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

I'm afraid to ask how old Damien is because I know it's gonna look like a you don't even want to know. It's gonna blow my mind.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

He just turned 23 in April.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Oh my god, I was gonna say he can get a beer now, can he? That's crazy. That's like he doesn't drink though.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

He does not drink.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

But like he's oh he's that old that he could.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

He's 23 years old. Wild. He has his own place with his girlfriend. Oh my god. I was living in LA.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

This is her son we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

My 23-year-old son. Crazy. He we moved to LA in 2023, and he moved into his own place, and but we still lived like not even 10 minutes away from each other. We, you know, we have a very unhealthy, I want to see you every day relationship. Um, so he would come over on his way to work every day, and then I moved here, and it's been it's been very hard to be away from him, but it makes me um we we went to Highland Park the other day where he's he lives close to there, and we were just walking down the street and he's just like walking down the road with his groceries. Like, it's so nice to see him out in the wild.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

And like we'll go into some of these places, and they're like, Damien, and he's like the mayor of Highland Park. I love that.

unknown 43:07

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

But he's just such a cool person.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

And I'm so lucky that he is the way that he is, and I'm so grateful that we are so close because he really is copy paste you. It's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

It's wild. I know. It's really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

He's he's so tall, he's like 6'2. What? And I'm five two, so that's insane.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

That's gotta be so trippy in like a beautiful way.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

It is because he's always he's my baby. He's so tiny to me still, and it's like it's so hard to let go of that. I know it'll it'll always be that way, but it's uh it's definitely challenging to be further away from him now.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

How did you manage it when you were like touring a lot with Kat?

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Ugh.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Um I call it touring. Because it is tour it is touring.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

It was it was a tour. It was 90% travel.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

I can't even like fathom because like I was tired and I was like on the bench. Like I was a bench warmer. It was I was tired. So I you were like the quarterback.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

It was um it was really hard. Uh because and I know any any corporate job you have, you're gonna miss a lot of things, and that's just the way that's just the way it is. But I missed birthdays, I missed like really important shit, and it didn't matter like at all to anybody, and nobody really I was the only one with a kid, so it was like nobody understands until you actually have a child how horrible it is to miss those things. And like those things in my life were always big, and I always tried to make those things really big for him, like you know, yeah, it was always he's he was never a anytime I would throw him a party, he hated it. Of course, like he he had anxiety, he'd throw up, like it was just like a crazy thing. But so later in life, it was always just like a really private in I'd decorate the house birthday, but there were a few times where I couldn't make it, and my mom my mom was like the most helpful person in the world during those times, and like he would, you know, she was subbing in a little bit, yeah. She was like mom. Um and and they're really close, so that I was really grateful for that. There was never babysitters or or anything, it was either my mom or myself, yeah. Uh, but that that was the hardest part of that job was was that because I mean in in the end, it's the same with pets, it's the same with kids, like you only have this one life. Yeah, this is it. Like you have to be there, otherwise you don't you don't get that back. And I'm and we're by the way, to be clear, because I feel like we're talking like everyone knows what we're talking about, but we're talking about when Leah was we should we say like a global I was a I was the global makeup artist global makeup artist Kat Von D beauty for years for years, yeah Yeah, for years it was a long time which involves for people who don't know like explain because we're we're talking and I'm realizing like people don't know the the makeup people that watch this will get every single thing that we're saying but like explain the like role and duty of like what a global makeup artist is for people that don't know they're listening. It was everything you can imagine, it was product development meetings, it was um creating curriculum for master classes. The first, the very first thing I did was teach a master class for I think it was like it was groups of like a hundred, and there was like a thousand sephora we were launching in a Sephora, and none of them spoke English. And I had to teach how like teach them about Lockett Foundation and complexion, and there was a translator, but it's still that was that was like the kickoff of all of it. And when we're not teaching master classes or launching in a Sephora or on a campaign shoot, we're doing influencer events, and since Kat was part the face of the brand, we were doing these like um meet and greet type things with her. It was there was every little thing that you can imagine within a brand where there's one job for that person now, like just a piece of that job, like individually, each thing. It was all of them under one umbrella. Yeah, yeah. Uh so it took up a and it was, you know, I'm I lived in Orange County at the time and everything was San Francisco or Los Angeles. So and you know, I s I still commute to LA, but I was like, I was I was there, like I was never home. And that took I mean it was a hit a a huge took a big toll on my marriage, my parenting, my all all of it.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

The traveling is so hard, yeah. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Yeah, it was hard. Physically, emotionally, yeah, and I also have a lot of illnesses, body issues, and traveling like that and eating and was I was so sick all the time. And I I was just like, oh, I'm just tired.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

I'm just what but it was like it was so many things and I think that's really important for people to hear because I think that a lot of people glamorize, you know, the the concept of being a global makeup artist, and it is it's it is amazing. Yeah, you are so tough. It was so fun, but like it is important to shed light on the physical toll of how much it takes out of you.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

There was times where we would we would have to sleep on the plane because we as soon as we got off, which was hard because we had to study what we were getting into as soon as we landed, but it was we go here, we leave there, we go to this next place. It was just there was no time for to take care of yourself, and that was really challenging for me. But also at the time I didn't really know how to take care of myself because I wasn't really used to that until I had to stop, and I was like, oh.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

So the pandemic, in a way, kind of like Oh, the pandemic was was a service and a strength.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

The pandemic was honestly the the happiest I've ever been in my life. It forced you to get away. Everybody had money. I had I could do nothing. I watched so many programs with my cats and Damien and Lindsay, and like I just it was the best. I went really. I did I wasn't playing video games then.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Really?

SPEAKER_00 49:53

No, we just recently got back on the on the games. I was I hadn't been playing since early 2000s, but I was roller skating on the beach every day. I was going to the roller skating, like everything I anything and everything I could think of that I could do that I never got to do, I did. And and it was the best.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

I I like that it ended up being like a blessing in disguise for you.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Yeah, at first I was like, this is horrible. What am I gonna do? Because I had been so used to grinding my whole life, and it was honestly the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

Yeah, it's like a it's almost like a wake-up call in a sense. Yeah. Okay, so I feel like now you're in this like space in your life and career, and you're like doing the male grooming, and you're doing music videos.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

What what other things are you working on, by the way? Like, what am I missing? Honestly, is that kind of the foremost? That's kind of it. And what do you want to be doing? Like, is this like this is what you love and you're gonna like in 10 years you see like it kind of being similar?

SPEAKER_00 50:53

I mean, I I do work on a lot of campaigns, um, but not that's not really the the way I want to go. Um I do love doing I love anything that's really I love doing music videos because they're always chaotic. Uh I love doing any kind of performance stuff.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Um I feel like music is very much integrated into like your artistry specifically.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Which I'm glad because that's where the want to do this came from for me. So it is really cool that I get to do that.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Elaborate. Like, how is it integrated into the makeup for you?

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Um, well, I always pull from a long time ago. Everything that I do is probably not anything that I see that is current. Um, I never do a direct copy of anything unless somebody's like, I want this. But most of the time the text techniques that I use are are not current. I I have a really hard time with trend makeup. Uh or, you know, every time I do anything, someone shows me a picture and it's always the same look. And it's always very, you know.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

I think what people don't understand as well, and I think this is something you'll agree with, is like one makeup will not look the same way. Uh like if it looks one way on one person, it's not guaranteed to look the same way on one.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

I now, before I would just be like, okay, I'll do it. Now at this point in my life, I usually just say, I'll do this for you, but this is not this is not the way it's gonna look. Yeah, you don't look like this person, right? You look like the opposite of this person, yes, and that's not not in a mean way, it's just like that's not you. Yeah. Um, and with at Makeup Forever, we were taught to work with the face shape, the you know, what every makeup artist is usually taught to do in the beginning, but I prefer to do something that is more complimentary for your face shape shape.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

I think that's like a big it's a big misconception too, because like you're seeing all these like tutorials on Instagram and TikTok, and it's just like everyone thinks that that's exactly like everyone does contour the same way. Yeah, but not everyone should be not everybody needs it, even needs it.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

There's some people I don't even do that on. It's it's I don't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

I I don't need it. I just yeah you would be no, I no, but like I would look like gongs. No, I'd be no, but it would look bad, is what I'm saying. Like whereas other people like I would look like hollow or like ill if I like carved out like a hard like line. No, it's you do not need that.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Yeah, but I think like people that are like learning like see that and think that they like have to do that, and like that's like the right way when that's not I mean it's taught a lot now in even in school, it's like the one of the biggest the highlight in the contour. It's I don't really care for it, yeah, unless you really need it, or if you're you know trying to create dimensions and specific lighting or whatever, it's like yeah, I get I get it. But for everyday life, it's seeing that is so wild to me.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

What's something that you do that you think is like unusual or like with your makeup technique or something that you do that you think you learned maybe yourself from trial and error? I know that's a hard question, it's a little abstract.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

Yeah, I actually don't know.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Um I'll give an example of like what I'm talking about with regards to myself, is like my eyes are very downturned. So like when I do my liner, yeah, I stop like two-thirds of the way out and then go up. But I just figured I'm sure that's a thing, but like that's something like on myself? Yeah. Okay. I know it's kind of partially, but like there are yeah, there are just certain things that I feel like I do that are like a little strange or not as universal.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

I guess I mean the only thing that I do that is different is my brow pencil on the lip, but that does count as an answer.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

But that's pretty much it. I'm actually so excited because I brought a red lip on the trip.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

You have to do it.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

And I'm gonna totally do it. I'm really excited. It's um I'll wear it to my dinner.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

I would love that.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Oh okay, I'm really excited. Did you do so? Did you do my makeup for Ashley's show that one time at the Wax Museum? I think he did you? Did I? I think you did.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

With the pearls?

SPEAKER_00 55:32

Yeah. Did I do yours?

SPEAKER_01 55:34

I think I think you did.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

I don't remember who I did.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

I think you did mine.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Was it bad?

SPEAKER_01 55:40

No, it was fantastic. It was phenomenal. You can do it. No, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

I actually really like that's not true. That is not true. I've done a few questionable looks, but it's because on yourself or other people. Other people.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Yeah. But I made a girl cry once.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

Did you? Yeah, Mac.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

It was that exact story that you're saying, like where somebody asks for something, but like they do not look like the reference, or they don't know what they're asking for. And I was like 19 and like just started. And I did exactly what was in the picture, but like didn't have like the experience to like it. No, I executed it just right. Okay, but it just like was not for their face.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Because like when people come in and they ask for a smoky eye, they don't actually mean a smokey eye.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

No, they just mean they mean at the lash, like a little bit. A little dusting. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Oh, but I did a full on smoky eye. Black. Yeah, I packed it on and she was like devastated.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Whenever somebody asks me now, oh, I want a smokey eye, I like no you don't. No, I always do brown.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Always. Always. Yeah. Never never in my life reach for the black anymore because I just know.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

They that's not what they mean. Yeah. They're speaking a different language. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Yeah. There was this time, there was there was this one time I had to do, it was for um Wonderland magazine, and she asked for my chemical romance, red, red shadow, the whole thing, and I was like, okay, because that wasn't really the vibe of the shoot, but it was an artist, so it was kind of whatever she wanted. And then um we did it, and she was like, Yeah, no, this isn't really what I'm thinking. And I'm like, Well, yeah, of course not. It's this is not the look, it's daylight out, and it's supposed to be like kind of ethereal. So I was like, okay, let's just we'll just buff it out because she still wanted like the the look, so I did, and then she was like, uh, I actually want to do something different, and then I was like, okay, so we do it again, and then still not the vibe. So then we just wipe off the red shadow, and she goes, That's it.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

But like left with the face on and just wipes.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

So it's like a that's crazy, just like the tint of red, and I was like, This is I feel like that's always like everybody, no matter what, coming into the to the counter or just in real life, they have a vision of what they want in their head, and it's never what is given to you, ever. It never is unless it's like a copy and paste and they're gonna look just like that. It's it's just never that, and it'll never be that.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

What I s what I started doing with people, and I'm I'd be curious to hear if you have any additional tricks, but like I basically realized exactly what you're saying, like nobody knows how to communicate actually what they want, or they don't have the language, and so basically what I would do is like show me a picture of yourself like from a time where you loved your makeup, and then I just do it how they do or like how they do their own makeup.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

How they do their own makeup is huge. For I I don't ever usually do weddings anymore, but before I I've done a couple lately on Friends, and they'll show me pictures, and I'm like, but you don't look like that, you don't ever wear your makeup like that. You don't want to look like this. I'd rather you you want to look like yourself, otherwise you're gonna feel crazy.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

Unless you're used to wearing a a lot of makeup, then you probably shouldn't do that because you're gonna look back on that and be like, who is that?

SPEAKER_01 59:25

You know who's phenomenal at that too is Aileen, who did my makeup. Yeah, she did my makeup for my wedding. She crushed it. She dunked on it.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

You looked very pretty.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Thanks. Gorgeous. Yeah, she she crushed it. She's very, very good at like figuring out.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Nailing down who you are.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's like a huge part of it.

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Yeah. I mean, it's it's still you.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

Right. You want to look like yourself.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Okay, so 10 years still want to just be doing the male grooming predominantly, and then like just hanging out with my cats. No, but honestly, you should be slowing down like at this like phase for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

It's scary though. Cause I mean, I I work, you know, I with an agency, so it's not like a consistent thing all the time. Yeah. So it it it's almost forces me to try to get back into that hustle hustle mentality, but it's you know, the makeup world is so different than it was 10 years ago. Yeah. I'm not as busy and you know, there's things that I take where I'm like, I kinda I have to take this. And that's not a fun place to be, but then I do it and I'm like, oh, that was fun. Like it forces me to do things that maybe I wasn't I wouldn't have been comfortable doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

But like, can you give an example when you're saying like things were very different?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

I was just so busy, like constantly, constantly busy. And you know, I just like I said earlier, it's I'm not working with a brand where I'm the face of the brand anymore. I'm not banging out YouTube videos, I'm not the face of anything anymore, which I'm j the face of myself, but uh you know, to be constantly busy, you have to like put those things out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

And I just did you were you very conscious of that too? Like at the time when you had to be like the face of something, like was that something you were thinking about very uh consciously?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

I mean, yeah, because we were constantly being told that. Right. Like there was there was things that we can't we had to be a certain way, we had to look a certain way, we had to put out this content, we had to say things, and you know, it was you get used to it, so it almost feels like real. Right. But I it's not really right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

There's a lot of constraints, I would imagine, yeah, that come with that. All right. I feel it I feel like we covered a pretty good range of topics.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Yeah. I mean, I think you know, you're one of my favorite artists. This is like a dream to get to sit down with you and talk with you. I'm always I think of you often when I'm doing my own makeup. I love that. And yeah, for inspiration all the time I think of you. So thank you. This has been phenomenal. I'm really glad that we got to do this. No, I know. This is like the this is like the heart of the project, is like it's bringing me back to like my favorite people. Yeah. Because you do only get one life and like one shot, and you know, but I'm really happy to see how happy you are. Thank you. And like you've found so much balance and you worked so hard for so long.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

And you deserve all of the it's been a really long time. So long, so long. I mean, but you're an icon. You you really you did the thing. Thank you. You're still doing it. Oh, thank you. Give me a hug. Let me see if I can get up. So exciting.