The Artidex Podcast
The Artidex Podcast is the conversation companion to The Artidex: a growing physical archive preserving today's artists through Polaroid portraiture, film, and conversation.
Each episode explores the people behind the work, documenting their creative journeys, philosophies, defining moments, and the experiences that shape a life in the arts. Alongside artist interviews, the podcast also follows the ongoing development of The Artidex itself as a living cultural archive.
Hosted by Gina Frey, creator of The Artidex.
Produced and co-hosted by Noah Boujikian.
The Artidex Foundation exists to preserve artists in real time while creating future opportunities to support them through grants, partnerships, and community initiatives.
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2615993/support
Podcast Artwork Polaroid by Kait Fischer
The Artidex Podcast
EPISODE 003 | REFLECTIONS ON ARTISTS #006-010
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The Artidex is an artist centered multimedia archive and creative network documenting contemporary artists through signed Polaroid portraiture, photography, short form media, and conversation. Each participating artist becomes a numbered ENTRY within a growing physical archive that preserves not only their work, but the person, story, and moment behind it.
The Artidex Podcast extends that archive through long form conversations, giving artists space to share their lives, creative journeys, and perspectives in their own voices. Through The Artidex Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, this work expands beyond documentation into direct artist support through grants, sponsorships, creative opportunities, and community investment.
In this Reflections episode, Founder and Executive Director Gina Frey and Director and Podcast Co Host Noah Boujikian revisit the creation of ENTRIES #006 through #010. Gina shares how she met each artist, what first drew her to their work, and the qualities she recognized in them long before their careers reached their current stages.
The episode follows The Artidex from Charlotte to New York City and Los Angeles, documenting metalsmith and jeweler Jamie Lokkeberg, musician and tattoo artist Jay Quilisadio, guitarist Zaach Page, dollmaker Joshua David McKenney, and style icon, model, and author Hanna Beth.
As the conversation unfolds, Gina and Noah explore the difference between a career and an identity, the vulnerability required to create something you genuinely believe in, and the freedom that comes from no longer allowing the fear of appearing “cringe” to prevent authentic expression.
Gina also reflects on how working in emergency medicine changed her understanding of fear, ambition, and time. Witnessing people experience some of the best and worst moments of their lives has made one reality impossible to ignore: life is finite. There may never be a perfect time to build something meaningful. Sometimes, you simply have to begin.
Together, ENTRIES #006 through #010 reflect the continued expansion of The Artidex across creative disciplines, communities, and cities. Each portrait preserves an artist at a particular moment in time, honoring not only what they have created, but who they were while creating it.
Featured Artists:
ENTRY #006: Jamie Lokkeberg
Metalsmith and Jeweler
Charlotte, North Carolina
Instagram: @nanokittie
ENTRY #007: Jay Quilisadio, formerly known as Cold Hart
Musician and Tattoo Artist
Charlotte, North Carolina
Instagram: @victoriansummer
ENTRY #008: Zaach Page
Guitarist
New York City
Instagram: @zaachpage
ENTRY #009: Joshua David McKenney
Dollmaker
New York City
Instagram: @jdavidmckenney • @pidgindoll
ENTRY #010: Hanna Beth
Style Icon, Model, and Author
Los Angeles, California
Instagram: @barbiebeth
If you enjoy thoughtful conversations about creativity, independent artists, and the stories behind the work, subscribe and follow along as The Artidex documents, connects, and supports artists, one ENTRY at a time.
Follow The Artidex on Instagram: @theartidex • @ginafrey
You want to say the RDX podcast, or you want me to say the Redex podcast?
SPEAKER_08Who said it last time?
SPEAKER_07I feel like yours because it was really crispy.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_07So do you want me to say it then?
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Okay. I'm Gina.
SPEAKER_08And I'm Noah.
SPEAKER_07And you're listening to the RTDX podcast.
SPEAKER_08Welcome. Welcome everybody. We're back. Back at it again.
SPEAKER_07Um, so we should probably resume the conversation we were having right before we started recording. So I feel like it was going somewhere good.
SPEAKER_08Yes.
SPEAKER_07And we wanted to save it because it was some a juicy morsel.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, so I had this thought, and you know, we were just catching up and talking about what we've been working on lately and how busy life has been, um, and just how much time and energy you've been putting into the Art of Dex project in between work and everything else. And I'm I'm gonna drop a bomb on you, so be pre be prepared.
SPEAKER_07Really?
SPEAKER_08But but I'm curious, and it really got me thinking is like, who are we when we're not these busy people? And like, if you stripped away like all the things that we're working on, then who are we?
SPEAKER_07Oh, I have a really good answer for this, if you don't mind.
SPEAKER_08You didn't even have to think about it.
SPEAKER_07You just no, I know because I know the answer. Because I think about I try to think about these things a lot. Like I try to be really introspective and self-reflective. And so for me, it's actually kind of flipped. So I feel like I have a really strong sense of self, and I don't know why that is. I feel like maybe because I spent a lot of time alone as a kid.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, but I feel like I know who I am inside, and I feel like I don't have ways to show people that. Yeah. Or I'm looking for ways to inform people of who I am and what my values are, how I want to interface with the world. And so I'm always basically looking for like what is a way that I can exist within the world that accurately represents who I am and fulfills like my personal moral duty. Yeah. It's it's interesting because it's like if you strip them all away, then it's just who I am at the core. But who I am at the core is now integrated into the things that I'm doing.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So I don't know if that is that kind of what you were saying?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, no, that that kind of is what I'm saying. I mean, I've always been somebody who I guess for the the large majority of my life, I considered who I am as an artist to be like my identity. But I think on a deeper level, when I think about it more, I don't necessarily know. I think that's maybe like an aspect of my identity. Yeah. But like I think when you strip all of it away and you look at the different things that I've uh pursued or like had a passion for in my life, whether it's the clothing business, whether it's music, whether it's art, I think like being someone who like recognizes patterns and like appreciates detail and things like that are like who I actually am beyond all of that. And I think that's why I gravitate towards the things that I do in my life. And I think like if I didn't have all those things, I would probably just start noticing the patterns in other things in other areas of my life, whether it's in nature or you know what I mean, just aside from all of that.
SPEAKER_07I agree with what you're saying. I think a lot of people anchor um their sense of self in what they're doing. But it's interesting because I don't view who people are as what they do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07It might be a reflection of their inner self or connected to their inner self. But like when you ask someone to tell, tell me about yourself, if someone was like, who are you? Or like if I think of how I would define myself, of course, sure, I might mention doctor, but like I don't think of myself exclusively as that. Again, I feel like who I am has been accurately reflected publicly to the world by being a doctor, but I was already that person. So that's kind of like why I think sometimes they call medicine like a calling. And a lot of people interpret that as like, oh, I've wanted to be a doctor since I was a kid, but that's that's not what it is, and that definitely wasn't it for me. Like I never thought about being a doctor until I was like 17. Um, it's more just that like there are certain character traits that doctors should and must embody. Exactly. And so being a doctor happened to align with my inner self. Yeah. So and so I define myself as somebody who values like honesty, authenticity, vulnerability. Like that's who I am. And my those values are like reflected in the work that I'm doing, but they're not the work isn't who I am. Is that yeah?
SPEAKER_08No, that that makes a lot of sense. And I think like what you're saying is it's so true, you know, being a doctor in a lot of ways is like the ultimate like peak of that expression of like who you are. You know what I mean? It's like that is like the culmination of like all the things that make you who you are, and all these things that like drive you to do these things and accomplish these things in your life. So that 100% makes sense.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and I think it's interesting because I think that that is kind of what they're looking for when they're filtering through people for acceptance to medical school, is like they're really just fundamentally looking for types of people. Yeah, it's not about like frank intelligence or anything like that. Yeah, of course, you gotta know the information, but they're looking for character and like integrity. Even when I got hired for my my job here, which is also why I love my job, is like the questions that my bosses were asking me revealed their values. Like my boss just looked at me and he's like, I just want to hire a good person. Yeah, and I was like, I really respect that.
SPEAKER_01You don't do that every day.
SPEAKER_07That's what matters to me because and it's true, like anybody can be taught anything. Yeah, like if you sit down and you wait long enough and you try hard enough, anybody can learn anything. Yeah, it's true, and there's always gonna be knowledge gaps. Nobody's perfect at anything, even really high performers, yeah. But if you could you could teach somebody information, but you can't always teach people character, it's built just over time.
SPEAKER_08That's why you could take a lineup of like a thousand doctors or something like that, and like not every one of them is going to be good people.
SPEAKER_07Like, I would say though, like the the process and the admissions process is so rigorous.
SPEAKER_08So they they filter like they filter, like yeah.
SPEAKER_07My first day at medical school was like one of the first days I felt at home in a crowd of people. It was like really profound. I could cry. But like it's everyone in the room, of course, there's exceptions. There's always exceptions. There's people that like get through the cracks that maybe like don't have the most earnest motivations, but by and large, 98% of the people, like the people in my medical school class and the people that I work with are just fundamentally outside of being a doctor, yeah, the best people. Just like the kindest, like warmest, well-intentioned people. They're just like awesome.
SPEAKER_08So maybe like it's something where a lot of the bad apples are filtered out just by design. And then you know, maybe there's that 0.1% that slips through the cracks because they're just really good at like masking who they actually are, or yeah, yeah, but I don't want to that's I feel like that's sort of going over to like the the negative side of things. I'm trying to keep it positive.
SPEAKER_07I know totally, totally.
SPEAKER_08You see where I'm going with this.
SPEAKER_07I absolutely, absolutely. Um, I think um the whole concept of like identity and like your job and even thinking about like medicine as a calling and uh connecting it to you know how the things we do might be a reflection of who we are, um, instead of maybe like actually constituting our sense of self.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I feel like I never um thought I could be a doctor. Like I just didn't think of myself that way at all. Like growing up, I just um I did really well in school, but like I didn't I didn't think very much of that. I was kind of just like, I enjoy learning stuff, and like when it comes up in a test, I like remember the answer. I don't know. Yeah, like I just I didn't think of like myself like that. Yeah, um, but yeah, I really do think it's a calling in the sense that if you embody those traits and you have the capacity to do that work, you are morally obligated to.
SPEAKER_01I see what you mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_07And it was kind of like my mom saying to me, and at the time it sounded hurtful, but like you know, a decade and a half later, I can look back on it and see like how she was right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But she said she just like looked at me and she's like, You're you're wasting your mind. Um, and and again, it sounds harsh. Sounds harsh, but it sounds super harsh. And she's like, You could really be helping people. Um, and because there are you know few people who can like stomach the work or like yeah, take on the workload that is like the intellectual and like physical workload of it. It's a very hard thing to do. And if you have the capacity to do it and you can help people, you're like fundamentally morally obligated to. Yeah, I don't think um that's actually necessarily true, but it's how it felt for me. Yeah, that was like what I told myself.
SPEAKER_08That's really cool, and I think it's it's really interesting that those are kind of the things that like sort of called you or compelled you to like step up and and go down this path. Yeah, and I think interestingly enough, on the complete opposite side of that, that's kind of what pushed me to step away from music, is realizing that I had spent this large part of my adult life with my identity being defined by who I was as a musician. And I think it got to a point where I almost like forgot who I was outside of that. I needed to like take a step back, not only just because of everything else that was going on, but also just to see like, okay, but who is Noah if he is not this musician, like making, creating music, putting out music, traveling, playing shows. Who am I when all that stuff is not there? And I think it was really important for me to remember because there was too much like pressure and expectation that I was putting on myself that's all based on this identity that I felt. And I think it's good for everybody to remember that you are like more than what you produce, what you produce. Yes, yeah, exactly. And what you do for to earn a living, even if what you do is really cool or really admirable, right? Um, there's always gonna be more to you. Sure. And I think it's important for people to remember that because it's you can lose sight of those things at times. Um, and again, we talked about this when we were doing like the kind of interview portion on the last podcast. Um, just with like me being an artist and my artist name being Noah B. Again, there was no separation between like me as an artist and me as a person. So it's like, you know, taking a step back and like seeing who I am without that, it was very important for me moving into like the next phase of my life, I would say.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. And I think like if you if you had me like describe you, of course, like talented and musician are like words that come to mind, but I think you're like just a very um authentic person.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_07And like a very um understanding person, empathetic. You're able to see things from really different points of view, and like you can you can really get into somebody's shoes, even though like if you haven't done that thing or experienced that thing personally, you can still put it on and like feel what it feels like, and that's a really rare quality. To me, that's who you are, yeah. And not like you make sick beats too. You happen to throw down a track, but like those sorts of things are are who you are. So, so that's yeah, and so that's kind of like what being a doctor is for me is like I was already a doctor before I was a doctor, yeah. It's just I found a profession that aligned with who I already was.
SPEAKER_08So, and and this is a perfect segue into to Artidex things. Some of these artists that that we've been covering, maybe the connection there is also that through their expression of their creativity, there's something intangible that we're connecting with that is that expression of those aspects of who they are that we connect with. And yes, we're connecting with the art, but maybe we're also connecting with what the art is saying about who they are as a person and the qualities they have and what kind of person they are.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. And and that's interesting because I was also reflecting, like Kate was asking me, she's like, Well, what are like the criteria for inclusion?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And um, I was like, that's a very thoughtful and legitimate and grounded question.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, and I I kind of sat there and I was like, I don't know, it's just a feeling. It's a feeling I get. Like it's not even, I listen to a lot of different types of music. I consume all different types of art. Yeah, of course. And I enjoy it and I love it, but there, but there's not, I don't like want to like reach out to every single artist whose work I enjoy. There's just like a weird little feeling I get. And I think it's just intuition. I don't know. It's a strange thing.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. So similarly to like you going through med school and all of that, there's some sort of like filtering that you're doing. Although you can't necessarily like explain it, but it's there. And that's again why I feel like maybe it does have something to do with this uh unspoken or like innate understanding of like who these people are. There's something that's like pulling us towards them that we can see um without them having to like explain it and see who they are, like behind their art.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and it's really strange. I I can't really explain it, but I've I've had this like happen to me in a recurring way throughout different areas of my life. Um, I don't know if you know this, but it was said in my like at our wedding and our wedding vows, but the day I met Kyle, I went home, called my friend, got on the phone, and I said, I just met the person I'm gonna marry.
SPEAKER_08I think we've we talked about this, yeah. And I was right, which is pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_07It's pretty insane. I just like in my core, just like I was like, wow, I was like, that's that's it. And like my best friend at med school, Brittany, she'll I don't know how some people, I guess the ones that aren't supposed to run don't run. But like I sat down next to her and I like looked at her. And dude, I swear I had met her for like 10 minutes. I was like, we're gonna be best friends. And like she was just like, yeah, like uh, which is insane to like meet someone, and I just like knew it's very odd. I don't know why, but I I just get like feelings about people, yeah, and I'm like realizing that that's not normal and that maybe it's a gift in a way, and I should be using it.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're an insanely intuitive person, and I think you, as I've known you over the years, you've only like gotten better at following your intuition and like going down these, like it's almost like in Alice in Wonderland, you know, it's like following the white rabbit. Now you're like every time you see that white rabbit, you're like, oh, where's it going? Like and you and you follow it, and then these like incredible things continue to manifest themselves in your life. So yeah, don't stop now.
SPEAKER_07No, I know. I'm trying, I'm yeah, I'm trying to just like lean into it and trust it. And this whole project has been like a really interesting representation of following that feeling. But yeah, there's no um, there's no criteria, it's just do I get a funny feeling? I don't know. Yeah, it sounds really silly, but that's what it is.
SPEAKER_08Absolutely, it's it's what speaks to you, you know. And again, from our perspective, a lot of it is the art speaking to us. But then, like I just said, on the other side of things, it's like who that person is is definitely speaking to us too, because um, you know, the people that we've covered beyond who they are as artists are all just like really cool people with really fascinating and interesting stories and so much depth to them. Oh my god, yeah. And there's just like so much to be found that's like exciting and interesting about these people.
SPEAKER_07I mean, dude, even with you, like why why did I reach out to this like name on SoundCloud that made like it is bizarre, yeah. Beats. And then like we're like so eerily similar.
SPEAKER_08I mean, there's so many people out there who who make music and make beats, and you know, you're you're like me. You're listening to music all the time, you're always finding new artists and things like that. So, like, why out of all of those artists that you were listening to was like I the one that you were like, oh, let me let me hit him up.
SPEAKER_07Like, you know what it I think, and I think about this too, just like with the project, I'm I see I'm seeing myself. I'm like looking for mirrors.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Um, I think we do that in general in life. You know, it's uh it's it's one of those really fascinating things about humans, I think, is that we're constantly in a subconscious way, like looking for mirrors. And I think about like all the people who are close to me in my life and how like if I stare at them long enough, I like see aspects of myself in them.
SPEAKER_07Absolutely, yeah. Hopefully, and hopefully like people that magnify all the good parts too.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. But um and maybe that speaks to a little bit of like small bit of narcissism in everybody. Like, but but maybe it's also just one of those things where it's like a a comfort thing, or maybe there's something instinctive.
SPEAKER_07I think it's just a search for community, yeah.
SPEAKER_08You know, which again, I it's instinctive, you know? It like takes us all the way back to like ancient times and like exactly knowing who like our community could be and like who we're safe and protecting.
SPEAKER_07And I don't I don't think it's I think I don't think it's narcissism. I think humans can tend towards loneliness, yeah. And like community building is so essential to our well-being. Yeah, it's like breathing, eating, I mean showering, I guess. I don't know. So it's a very fundamental process to like existing in the world in a in a way that's like fruitful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, like you need you need community and you need people around you that like you resonate with. And I think that I'm just like looking for that in people. Yeah, it's healthy and it's nurturing and it's a good, it's good. But yeah, I don't know for sure why I get that feeling. I'm figuring it out slowly. I feel like a connection to this person, and I yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_08Absolutely. I mean, that's probably the best way to best way to go about it.
SPEAKER_07Simplest, simplest explanation.
SPEAKER_08Just get that funny feeling and there's a vibe, and you gotta roll with it. Um, so speaking of vibes, number six. Six wow, it's it's it goes quick, yeah. Um so yeah, if you want to like open open up and uh just talk about Jamie a little bit, yeah, and like how you met Jamie and Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, I've known Jamie for a really long time since we were kids. I'm saying this about a lot of people, but it's true. A lot of the people that I'm like including are people I've known for a really long time.
SPEAKER_01Which is so cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Jamie's always been just like a really deeply creative person, and there's just like an underlying sweetness to her that I really just respect. And just like also a sense of fun and spontaneity and like goofiness and like not taking yourself super seriously, her obsession with Chuck E. Cheese, like animatronics.
SPEAKER_01It is really funny.
SPEAKER_07Like she's deeply in, and I didn't even know this existed. Opening my eyes to a whole new world, but there's like a whole animatronics community, and they're like all very serious. They have like threads on the internet and stuff.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I mean, it doesn't surprise me. I guess like everything has its culture coming.
SPEAKER_07Every niche has a community, right? So but um, but she's been making jewelry almost basically since I've known her, which we I think we were like 14, 13.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's wild.
SPEAKER_07Um, and when I was, I think I could say I was 15 or 16, I that's how I started in PR when I was 15 or 16.
SPEAKER_08Which is crazy. It's at such a young age to do that.
SPEAKER_07I think I was trying to build a photography portfolio for college. That's what I was doing. I was trying to build a portfolio for college, and I wanted some combination of like commercial work and portraiture. So I was reaching out to clothing companies and I was like, hey, I'm a young photographer that's like learning and building a portfolio. And if you'd be open to sending me like a couple of t-shirts, I would love to take photos for you in exchange for the shirts. Right. And you can use them on your website, on your social media wasn't even really a huge thing when I was 15. But um, I think it was like MySpace still, potentially.
SPEAKER_01It probably would have been MySpace.
SPEAKER_07But I was like, yeah, you could use them on your retail website, what you know, whatever use you have for them. Um and like a lot of people were saying yes, which is just crazy. I don't think they knew how old I was, potentially. I don't think I volunteered. I don't think that I volunteered that information, but Jamie happens to also be, in addition to being like talented and warm and goofy, very beautiful. So I was like, Do you want a model for me? So we did like when I was like 15, she like wore these shirts from some company on the beach. I think it might have had a like a flying pig on it or something. I don't even really funny. It was like crazy. Like looking back now, those t-shirts were unhinged. Yeah, but she was just like down. Like I was like, you want to like wear some shirts on the beach and be a model for me? And she's like, sure, you know, just like down, you know. And um yeah, she she started making jewelry also at a super young age. She worked at Brooklyn Charm for like, I don't know, I think, I think a decade. I know we say a decade for everything, and that's like the running jump, but like I think legitimately. And then I just love her jewelry. It's super punk and textured and like ethereal. It's just got like a really interesting energy to it. Um, so yeah, big fan, just a big fan of her, like a big fan of her as a person and like her creativity. Um, and she also has a a male club, which I think is that's that's super cool. Really cool, and she's got like A lot of a lot of subscribers.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_07She was showing me when I did her Artodex in her bedroom. Every month she like produces physical mail for people.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's sick.
SPEAKER_07And this echoes the project, like tangibility, like old school things. She's like, I just really missed getting mail. And I thought maybe other people missed getting mail.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And having something to open from your mailbox.
SPEAKER_08That's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_07And um, so I think when I like did her Artodex, and this was a couple of months ago, she had like 86 people. Um, and it's $10 a month. So naturally, I signed up. I was like, I want to get that.
SPEAKER_08Um, what it what what kind of stuff is she sending?
SPEAKER_07So she's because she's insanely creative, um, she basically builds out narratives and themes that are different for each month.
SPEAKER_02Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_07So the first month that I got, which I loved, was like us basically um an invitation to a summer camp that like goes wrong and there's like a mystery and like someone goes missing.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's cool.
SPEAKER_07And she like includes like tiny little uh Fuji instax Polaroids and she like put them in the mail. Oh wow, and she like makes these old, you know, like when somebody has like a ransom note and it's like pasted together letters, she put that in there, so it's almost like opening a mystery.
SPEAKER_08Interesting. So another another world builder, which I keep coming back to.
SPEAKER_07Yes, absolutely. And I was like, I want to know what happened at the camp. And she's like, Me too. But yeah, just like visionary, appreciating tangible, nostalgic things. She's big into like 90s stuff. She just like dropped some Tamagotchi necklaces.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's that's sick.
SPEAKER_07She's she's the coolest, but yeah, I I reached out to her and she was gracious enough to do it. And it was like really awesome because she's a mom and she's got like two little kids. And um, I was like, I don't if you don't care if your kids are around, I don't care. I love kids. I I love kids. I am a giant kid. That's that's true.
SPEAKER_01I can confirm.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, if you just like if you just like supersize a child, it's me. Yeah, um, so and I love her kids, they're amazing. But yeah, it was so fun. So we like all went to Chuck E. Cheese together for her Artidex. That's it. It was great, and we got pizza.
SPEAKER_08I mean, like previous to that, when was the last time you were like out of Chuck E. Cheese?
SPEAKER_07Like, oh my god, way too too long.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I can't.
SPEAKER_07My seventh birthday, I don't know.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's been forever.
SPEAKER_07It's a great place to be. Is it?
SPEAKER_08It really I I don't know what like what a modern Chuck E. Cheese experience is like. I mean, yeah, actually, do they still have all the animatronics that they're doing? They do.
SPEAKER_07They have a stage with a like animatronic Chuck E, and there's a a bird character, which is Jamie's favorite, called Helen.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_07And like she even she so it's really funny. She she actually has a reputation at the Chuck E. Cheese.
SPEAKER_08Oh, really? So she's like a regular.
SPEAKER_07She's a right, oh, she's a regular, but like she like gets in trouble with them. She's like, 'cause she's like put her necklaces like on the animatronics.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_07And like she's always like trying to like get some picks, picks with the robots. They've always been like, ma'am, you can't do com you can't do photography in here. I don't know. She like gets in trouble, and so um they're like always like keeping an eye on her, like waiting for her to misbehave. So we were like, we were trying to like do her artidex undercover. Yeah, so it was so funny. I was like sticking my camera in the curtain behind my back. Um trying to be discreet because I don't want her to like get her spot to get blown up. It's insane that she's got a rep at Chucky.
SPEAKER_08I know, right?
SPEAKER_07Like there's like a wanted poster with like Jamie's face on it.
SPEAKER_08Kind of what I was picturing is like the wanted poster on the wall, and it's just like her face, like yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07That's it, that's on the honest truth. But yeah, so Chuck E. Cheese, like right now, is basically an arcade. It's a birthday party venue, yeah, quintessential birthday party venue, and they have the pizza was good. I don't know, fight me. Like, I know I'm a New Yorker and I'm supposed to be Yeah, that is crazy for a New Yorker. I know it's it's good. I I swear.
SPEAKER_08And I mean Jamie's a New Yorker too, and she she also I wonder if it's like a bit of the nostalgia factor too. Maybe, maybe there's something specific about it that's a lot of people. There's definitely feedback, you know.
SPEAKER_07That definitely could be a hundred percent contributing to the experience, but it's it's not bad. I swear. It's not bad.
SPEAKER_08You heard it here first. Chuck E. Cheese pizza.
SPEAKER_07Chucky Cheese pizza, it slaps. I'm I'm sorry. It does. Um, it slaps in the way like Taco Bell isn't like objectively a good taco.
SPEAKER_08No, I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_07Like it's fulfilling a role.
SPEAKER_08It's playing a food from like Costco and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07It's not like top-tier cuisine, but it fulfill it has a role to play. Yeah, it's not a Michelin role, but it's like it has a place, it has a space in my life.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah. I'm actually it does surprise me that Chuck E. Cheese is still like active and going. It's it feels like something that would have like, I don't know, yeah, gone out with like the blockbusters and like other like things of a bygone era, but I guess still holding on. Kids, kids still need a place to go.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I'm trying to think of like places that I I was a really big Kmart kid.
SPEAKER_08Oh, yeah. Actually, so Kmart, uh, you know, you know my album, South Hills. So like the the title South Hills is based on like the mall that I went to as a kid. It's called the South Hills Mall. Really cool. Um yeah, and they had a a Kmart there. And I remember like the dying days of Kmart and all that, and you know, there was a there was a Chuck E. Cheese there. There's another spot there that was similar to Chuck E. Cheese. It was called Discovery Zone. And uh, it was like a bigger. If you took like just the like play structures or like a McDonald's play place or something like that, and made an entire planet gym size place, yeah, that was like just that. That's what Discovery Zone was. And that was like my favorite place to go, like as a kid, or like birthday parties, stuff like that. Incredible. It was just like massive ball pits, and like you know, it was one of those places that now in retrospect is very like backrooms vibes, but it's did you watch that? No, I haven't seen it yet.
SPEAKER_07I haven't seen it yet.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, a lot of people have told me to check it out. Um, and I I plan on it, so that's yeah, it's on the list.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, but yeah, Kmart. Uh I was like a blue slurpee kid. I don't know how I don't have diabetes, but um, I just remember just nostalgic if my mom had to like go shopping or whatever. I'd be like, Can I cop a Slurpee? Yeah, and it was like a great day if she said yes.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that's true. I did I did love a good Slurpee, like Blockbuster.
SPEAKER_07I miss. Um, there's a lot of places that have gone out from when we grew up that aren't still around, but it's sick that that Chucky still is. Chucky lives on, he's doing well.
SPEAKER_08I think what is I don't I at one point I knew his like full name.
SPEAKER_07Chucky Cheese?
SPEAKER_08No, it's like Charles Charles Charles Entertainment Cheese or something like that.
SPEAKER_07Oh man, if we could if we could like phone a friend on Jamie, she would all the lore. Yeah, all of the lore. But yeah, she's she's amazing. Um, super, super creative, super kind, gracious, really a lot of fun. So that was a blast. Yeah, 10 out of 10 experience.
SPEAKER_08No, it sounds like it was a lot of fun, and I think you could just tell by watching the Art Dex that like you were having fun, she was having fun, the kids were having fun. It was just like all good vibes all around.
SPEAKER_07Again, she was down down to for like the craziest, you know, anything I wanted. I was like, Can you go like in this like ball machine that's gonna smack you in the head with like a bunch of and she was like, Okay.
SPEAKER_08And it's not only cool that you've like maintained this connection with her, but that like after all these years, she's still that person that you can be like, yo, are you down to you this? And she's like, Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a like a beautifully like fundamental, unchanged, unchanged thing.
SPEAKER_08Maybe again, that like speaks to who she is as a person.
SPEAKER_07There's definitely a there's a theme, there's definitely a pattern, like very interestingly, because you're gonna see as the Artidex develops, and when I say you, I mean the people listening and watching, yeah, how diverse it is. Like, I'm including types of people that you might not expect or might not even consider an artist.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, but it's just my favorite part, my favorite part. And you know, like uh when we talked about Rachel in the last episodes, like that's I think those are the people who, and it's interesting because I think most people who know me would assume that I gravitate more towards like the musicians and stuff, but it's actually the people who other people look at and are like, what do they do? Or like, is that art? Yeah, I mean that's the the people who interest me the most, you know. Those are the people who I feel like I understand, like um, so yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_07The people that make you scratch your head a little or like make you think, make you question things are really special, but it's very diverse. The types of people that I'm including and the things that I consider to be art or artful or creative might not be um something that most people would expect. Yeah, so I'm really excited to like showcase the people that I feel like are aligned with like what I'm talking about, and I think it is also a it's a very specific search for character.
SPEAKER_08Well, what you're doing too is like you're creating this thread between all these artists who maybe individually seemingly are are like unconnected, you know. I mean, you could look at them like side by side and be like, oh, well, they might be artists, but they're completely different. But you're like connecting all the dots, and like there's this through line between everybody where you can start to see like a pattern if you really look and you pay attention to the artidexes and stuff, you're like, actually, all these people are very similar.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and my favorite part that like I didn't even think about, there's a lot of favorite parts I didn't even think about before I started this, but like you guys are like looking at each other and like really like being exposed to each other and like wanting to work together, and like it's really, really cool to see the paths that cross over.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, absolutely. And I hope there will there will only be more of that in the future, yeah, and that more of the artists you're doing will take the time to explore everybody else who's been involved because I feel like there's a lot more of really cool connections that could be made between people.
SPEAKER_07Speaking of connections, number number seven, organic connection.
SPEAKER_08Number seven, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Jay. Jamie introduced me to Jay. Um, and I was like just at their house doing her artidex, and we were sitting at the kitchen table, and she was like, You should do Jay. And I was like, Oh, I was like, Would you be down? And he was like, Hell yeah. And I was like, All right, let's do it. Um, and and he's um super legendary. And I but I like when I was in med school and like residency, uh, my head was like in a textbook. I was not super well integrated in culture, right?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_07Um, so I was not aware of how prolific of an artist Jay is, yeah, and like all of the incredible work he's done. I I was not, I didn't know. Um, like I I kind of knew like peripherally that um he was really popular for something, but I didn't really know. I didn't know what it was. So that was like an insane, like mind-blowing discovery, which was really, really cool. But what I really like about how Jay happened was just like, you know, I was like sitting at their kitchen table, their kids are like playing on the floor, and I'm like setting up stuff for her artidex, and she was like, You should do Jay. And I was like, Oh, you like, would you be down? Like you'd be interested in doing that. And he was like, Absolutely, like, and I was like smiling, and I had like my grills in, and he was like, So he's like, You're a doctor that wears grills, and I was like, Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_05And he's like, That's really cool.
SPEAKER_07Um, so that was awesome. Yeah, Jay is like this prolific legendary.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, so for so for people who don't know, let's bring the people up to speed.
SPEAKER_07Please do, and you're gonna do a way better job than me, Noah.
SPEAKER_08So please so Jay, uh, you know, also um known as Cold Heart, uh, one of the founding members of Gothboy Click, involved heavily with the SoundCloud underground music scene, Lil Peep, and and all those adjacent artists, and really had a huge impact and a pretty big hand in the the early days of a lot of that SoundCloud stuff and a lot of those scenes that were popping up. Um, I would say a lot of the production that he did and like beats that he made and stuff were like pretty formative and like instrumental, no pun intended, um, in in the development of a lot of those scenes and stuff. He's he had his impact is known and it's it's well noted for sure.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I think especially amongst like musicians and producers, like his Artidex is one like people are like, damn, you did Cold Heart? That's sick.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, no, he's he's an absolute legend. I mean, I I was always a fan of his music before Cold Heart. He went by Jay Yeah, and I was like a fan of his music way back then. You're an OG, yeah. So it's to see that like come full circle and uh and have you be able to like cover somebody like that because it's really cool what he's doing now with his tattooing and stuff like that. It's it's always awesome to see artists find new ways to express themselves, and it seemed like it's something he's like super passionate about.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and he's been tattooing for so long, and I don't and I don't think a lot of people know that about him. And again, this like connects back to like how multifaceted people are, yeah. But he's been tattooing since he was 18.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy.
SPEAKER_07Like he's like legit, that's awesome, legit as hell. He tattooed me for that Artidex, which I don't even know that like people fully computed that I don't I don't think they realized that you really went on and got tatted. I got tatted for the Artidex. I'll like put a picture in or something.
SPEAKER_08But um Well, you're not gonna take your shoe off and show people.
SPEAKER_07That's all I'm not giving out foot stuff for free, man. Um but but yeah, I got tatted. I originally was literally gonna get like the Artidex in his like sick gothic script that he does. But um I ended up doing 777 because he was number seven. And I also just felt like he was good luck. I feel like he was like a really big catalyst for like giving this project legs. Um, but yeah, he really he gave a lot of substance to the project, and so I felt like it was really lucky.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And so I was like, 777, that's the vibe. And I'm gonna like get that tattooed on me. So the luck just like keeps keeps going and like finding me. And uh I was really happy to be able to like meet him and explore the the tattooing he's doing because it's like really his his style is super interesting. It's almost this like um textured, gritty etching style sort of tattooing, um, which I love.
SPEAKER_08I know what you mean. It's like ornate and has this like sort of gothic feel to it, but also feels very like current, almost futuristic in a way.
SPEAKER_07It's like yeah, there's a timelessness to it, and it was really cool because I think um the flourishes he did behind my 777, I think he said he had traced out of an antique book from like Jamie's grandfather or something. So cool. So it was like such like a cool just lore behind the tattoo. Yeah, that I just I I love I love lore. I love a story.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, absolutely. He would be an awesome person to get in for an interview. Dude, I'm trying.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I'm trying. Yeah, actually. I've dropped the seed. I planted the seed. No, he's uh really, really cool, super kind, gracious, like insanely humble, down to earth. For the amount of success he's had, he's like completely like both feet are on the ground. Yeah, and that's like I respect that so much. He really is just like very human and like vulnerable, and you wouldn't know how much he's accomplished if you like met him. He's not pretentious, he's just like feels like a real down to earth, authentic person.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, absolutely. He's not one of those people who immediately like tells you who he is and all of his accomplishments, exactly. Which, like, you know, I can be the same way too. Where like I can go a while with like knowing people and they don't even know that like I make music.
SPEAKER_07I mean, it took you 10 years to tell me you opened for Wu-Tangs.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, true.
SPEAKER_07I mean, I got it, yeah. No, but I I really I do respect that. And and he was just super, super warm, kind, down for whatever. I had a blast. And I also like found it really crazy because uh where we shot his actual portrait was on the back of a truck parked behind the tattoo shop. How insane is that with the poke ball on it?
SPEAKER_08Okay, yeah, I was curious like where where that was, but it's it came out so perfect.
SPEAKER_07It was insane. He was so he was tattooing a client for it so that we could get clips of him tattooing, and so I was like, yeah, I was like, I'm just gonna like walk around outside because the building was really cool, had like a ton of great like graffiti art on the walls. I was like, I'm just gonna scope it out and take a look around outside. Um, and so like I walked back just like behind the property, and there's like a broken down truck, or it looks broken down. I don't know, it doesn't look operational, right? But it had like a giant Pokeball on it, and I was like, this is crazy!
SPEAKER_03It's meant to be, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Meant to be. I was like, we gotta take it here. I don't even know if he like knew that that was back there. So weird to be like doing like a Pokemon adjacent or inspired idea, and then there's like a giant pokeball, yeah, just there.
SPEAKER_01It just worked out perfect. That's it.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so that that was a lot of fun. And we went to like a thrift store after he showed me a little bit around like the area he works in in Charlotte, and it's just really cool. That was the first time I've ever been to Charlotte. Yeah, I've never never had a reason to go there, and that's like also the beauty of the project is like it's bringing me to places I otherwise would not have gone.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Which is which is really cool. And of course, you know, in the the next episode, we'll talk about our trip to a place that we had not gone to. Oh my god. Because that was really, really so excited for it. Yeah, that was a really interesting trip.
SPEAKER_07But incredible, yeah. Yeah, I'm glad that I like I'm both equally like grateful you were willing, but also excited about the fact that I like roped you into this. Yeah, like uh, and you're getting to like get the feeling that I'm getting because it's such a high. Yeah, I was like, I think I've been in a good mood since June 9th. Seems like it, yeah. Yeah, I've been like really happy. I'm just like, this is like what I'm supposed to be doing. I like, you know, that kid that walks around on social media and he like stopped billionaires and like millionaires, and he's like, How did you get rich? Oh yeah, he's kind of like aggressive about it.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, or they'll be like pulling up in a Lamborghini walks up to him, he's like, What do you do for that?
SPEAKER_07And like some of them are staged, but maybe like when he was starting out, he really was just like cold, like approaching these people, asking them for advice on success. And I guess in one of the videos, I don't I have no idea who it was, but they were basically saying when he was asking them for advice, they were saying, in order to be successful and from their perspective, you have to figure out what your inherent gifts are and use that and make that the career.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07And I think that I've tried to do a lot of like reflecting people, um, used to say to me, and I I used to be a little insulted by it, but I've had tremendous perspective and growth. But like when I was younger, people would say they'd be like, How do you know so so many cool people? Or like, why are you like, why are you friends with so many cool people? Like, how do you know them?
SPEAKER_08And I was As almost if to like insinuate that like you're not cool enough to know those people.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, that's how well that's how it felt. And I know that that in the most cases, I hope, yeah, was not the intention, but it did land a little bit like that. And I was like, Well, I don't know, I'm nice, I'm cool, like right. Like, I don't know, like I I guess I don't deserve it. I don't know, but um, but uh I realized like that's actually like a super incredible compliment and like probably connected to some sort of inclination that I have for like I don't know, crossing paths with the right people at the right time, yeah, yeah, and like finding people. So, and that's really what it was. Like, it's I'm I'm always like becoming friends with people before they're like notorious for something, yeah. Um, and like seeing them before the world has recognized them. Yeah, and so I just like come up, I'm coming up with them.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, you know what I mean? I also think you have a lot of these cool friends because again, and this just circles right back to what we were saying in the beginning. Like you are seeing people for who they are, yeah, and not necessarily what they do. You appreciate and like have this deep respect and admiration for the things that people do and the ways that they express themselves, but you see beyond all of that and like see the person. I think that's why you end up with so many cool friends, yeah.
SPEAKER_07That's what matters to me. And I think like that's also kind of part of the unspoken criteria that's hard for me to articulate. Yeah, but it's like looking for certain types of people, like there are there are people coming up that I'm doing that are just like some of the best people I've ever met. And they're just like really well.
SPEAKER_08The cool thing is in a way, it's like you're not I don't even know. And maybe you could maybe you could correct me on this, but I don't even feel like you're actively seeking these people. I feel like there's sort of just this chain of events that's unfolding where the universe is sort of like organically presenting these people to you in a way where like you get a light bulb and you're like, oh, of course this is the next person. Oh, of course I'm gonna do this person.
SPEAKER_07Um well, it's it's probably a little bit of a combination of things. Like, I'm I am casting a really wide net and then seeing like what hits, and then like if if somebody is down to do it, then for me, like like spiritually, I guess it's like that's the person that's meant to do it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_07Like, if if it's not like resonating with someone, that's totally okay. And they're just like not meant to do it, or it's not the right time. Um, and like maybe things will shift, but I'm like just casting a really wide net, and then like the things that are working out are the things that are meant to work out, and I very much believe that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_07But I'm also taking taking it back to like when people are like, Well, I do know so many cool people. I'm like, that might be my superpower. Like, let me actually, you're you're right. I do know so many cool people. Yeah, you're right. My friends are the coolest people ever. Let me show them to you, yeah. In like a little book, actually. And so I was like, you know what? It's not an insult, it's actually a a blessing. I'm like so like grateful for. Like, yeah, I have the coolest friends, yeah, absolutely. Um, and so it's no longer no longer lands like as an insult. I'm like, you're damn right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, so.
SPEAKER_07Like I feel it differently now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But like when I was 21 and somebody said that, I was like, oh, I guess and I don't know.
SPEAKER_08I guess I don't know what yeah, you're at your at that phase of your life where where things like that maybe uh they come across the wrong way. Yeah. Yeah. But that's just because you're still like discovering who you are and understanding things about who you are as a person.
SPEAKER_07Exactly. So number eight, crazy, this is like a perfect example. How do you know so many cool people? Um, Zach.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I've known Zach since I was 12.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, which is which is really, really impressive. I mean, there's not I I maybe know like two to three people from when I was 12 who I still have like some sort of connection with, you know what I mean? Yeah. And for you guys to have had like a friendship for as long as you've had, um, is it's it's pretty wild.
SPEAKER_07And like a very substantial one too. Like insane impacts on my life. And like the amount of like just parallel growth we've had has been like really just incredible.
SPEAKER_08Well, I've been hearing about Zach since since I first started talking to you. I feel like I within our first like few conversations, you're like, Oh, and my friend Zach, like he's this incredible savant, and like he's amazing at the guitar and all this stuff, and it's it's really cool. So I've like seen a lot of that over time.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, people um throw the word prodigy around or like savant or like gifted, they throw it around, like he earns and deserves that word, like he is not of this world, yeah like his talent is not nothing is normal about it. There's nothing normal about it. He was and like there was of course like an intense amount of like intention and training and hard work. Like he did a lot of classical training and things like that, but that is like the guitar, like when he plays the guitar, it made me think of it's not a guitar anymore. It's so crazy, it's like an extension of the self, yeah. Yeah, which is it doesn't sound like a guitar to me anymore when he's playing, which is I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_08It's almost like he's like talking to you instead or something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And and he has this like really special gift where we might have to do this for we should do this for an episode. But he um, like if you're sitting at a table with him and there's like multiple people and you're like having a conversation, he'll quietly just start to play and he just like soundtracks and soundscapes the environment, yeah, like off the dome organically, and just like and it's effortless. And you almost like just don't notice it creep in, and it's like just filling the space with this like energy. And then, like, if he like stops to go get a cup of water, I'm just like, wait, who turned the lights off?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, like I'm like, what? So he's almost like the way that he's viewing the world is like on a different layer than everyone else, you know. I mean, he's seeing things through this like this completely different lens. Oh my god. Um, to what to your point about a lot of people throw around those words like prodigy and savant and things like that, with you know, artists who are incredibly talented. But I think something that I've noticed already that separates him from a lot of other people is that there is a there's an effortlessness to the things that he is doing and to the way he will pick up and play his guitar that I think goes beyond any level of like training or anything like that. There's just something like it's like breathing or walking, or you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_07It's like I've learned so many incredible lessons just by being his friend and like watching him. He he is undoubtedly a master. And I'll hear him yeah, like I'll hear him like mess up, and I'm like, and like it's like the most beautiful thing to me because I'm like, wow, you can be a master of something and still occasionally trip, yeah, or stumble. And I'm like, that is so beautiful and comforting because like even as a like a as a doctor, I like kept telling myself like a med student, resident, new attending. I'm like, eventually I'll know everything, or like eventually I'll feel like I've got it down path, yeah, or I'll feel differently, like I know what I'm doing. I'll tell you, three years out attending, I still feel like I don't know so many things, which like it sounds scary. Um, but like I've had this conversation with him. I had this conversation with Jamie too, because like as she was like making the necklace for the artidex, she like messed something up, and then she was like, she's like, oh, sorry, um, I'm just gonna fix this real quick. And I was like, no, that's why you're a master. Because you will always mess up. Masters mess up, Beethoven messed up. But knowing how to fix it, yeah, having seven different ways to fix it is the mastery.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, no, that is very true. That's that's a profound revelation, and it's huge, it applies to everything. Of course, that's something that you're gonna like always carry with you, and you just like think back to that, like yeah, you know, when when Jamie messed up the necklace or like when Zach was playing the guitar and he fumbled without the floor.
SPEAKER_07They fix it, they fix it like reflexively, yeah. Just like boop. And I'm like, that's the mastery. It's not never making a mistake. Yeah, it's like the mistakes are inevitable and will happen, but knowing how to fix it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And that's like comforted me as a doctor too. I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know if something's gonna go wrong or something expect unexpected's gonna happen, especially in the ER. Like, I like people come in dying and I don't know why. Yeah, and like they sometimes can't talk to me and I don't know who they are. That's very true. That's true. And so I'm just like, okay, well, I have like all of these like tools in my toolbox. Like, okay, if A doesn't work, then I have B, C, D. I'm gonna try E. Like, I'm gonna just like freestyle and riff on it. It's just insane to realize that that applies to everything. People think like doctors like know everything, we always know what we're doing, and like we always have the answer. Absolutely not. But we have seven different ways that we've thought about how to get out of a problem.
SPEAKER_08No, it's that's very true. And it's it's I think it's good that you're saying this too, because I think a lot of people don't view medicine from that perspective. Yeah, but even like when you say that, it like my my brain goes to so many different places because it's like, you know, I I think of all the interactions I've had with doctors over the years and things like that. And uh the more I ponder on it, the more I'm like, well, how do they know? But really, what it is is that you're presented with a situation or a problem, and you have all, like you said, you have all these tools at your disposal, you have all this knowledge that you've gained, and it's okay, this is the situation, figure out what's wrong and then figure out the solution.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. It's about like also like knowing where to look. A good doctor will tell you they don't know, but like we know where to look, yeah, and we have we have a lead on the case. Yeah, that's what it is. It's like just that like the the intuition conversation. Like, I have it in medicine too. It's really weird. It plays into my role as a doctor. Like, I'll have like I'll be like looking at a patient and I'll be like, gosh, I'm like, what's going on? And then like there's like a little thing in my mind. It's like it's like a little uh voice in my head, not in a schizophrenic way, but in a comfort, in a comforting way, where it'll just be like vasculitis. And I'm like, oh wow. I'm like, could be. I should I should do some tests for that. Like I saw a lady the other day um who was getting worked up for these like new deformities on her foot, and I was like, charcomerie tooth disease. Like, like it's something I like it's in an Andrew Weit painting. There's a million abstract conditions we like heard of covered for like 30 seconds in med school and vaguely know about, yeah, but like don't see or hear every day. Yeah, the intuition like kind of plays into that too. So yeah, it's not about having the answers, it's about having the foundation that then supports you and like knowing where to look. Yeah. So I'll literally like see a patient and I'm just like real with them. I'll be like, this looks like a couple of different things to me. Skin stuff's hard. Like, I'm just giving an example with a rash. Just like I'm just like picking something to illustrate a point. I'll be like, this looks like a couple of different things, you know, different rashes, or sorry, excuse me, the same rash can look 10 different ways on 10 different people. I was like, I'm gonna go like look up a couple things and then like I'll come back. But like, and like and it feels like um when I think when I was like newer or like when I was a resident, I felt embarrassed. Like I remember talking to um one of my like mentors, Dr. Andrew Wackett, shout out, incredible emergency doctor. I was like shadowing him when I was a first-year med student. I was like, so when do you feel like you know what's going on? Or like when do you feel like you've got it? Yeah, like when do you relax? He's been doing this for like 20 years, you know. He's like, I'll let you know when I find out. And we've kind of all come to this understanding like if you're too, if you're too relaxed and like you think you know everything, you you should retire. Yeah, you should retire, you should put it down because that's that's why they call it practice. Yeah, because we're all like constantly finding things and like yeah, so yeah, we And I think again that like speaks to who you are as a person.
SPEAKER_08You like beyond who you are as a doctor, you're a very like investigative and inquisitive person. You love a good deep dive, like I do, you know. So any opportunity you have to like investigate something further, it's like you're like you're all up in it.
SPEAKER_07Like going back to the concept of like mastery doesn't mean being perfect, yeah, and like never making a mistake, and it doesn't mean knowing everything. And I think people don't know that, and it like deters them, maybe from doing things or exploring things because they're nervous about being wrong or don't want to like mess something up. It's like actually people that are the best at things still mess up, yeah. They still mess up. It's just okay. They've learned to accept it.
SPEAKER_08So profound revelations from Zach Page.
SPEAKER_07That's yeah.
SPEAKER_08Um, and that's also just you know, from what I understand about him and and from what you've told me, that's just the kind of person he is. Yeah, he's just that person who, as you connect with him, there will just be these these like revelations or like truth nuggets.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, he'll drop a knowledge bomb, his insight is crazy. That rewired my brain, yeah, like that revelation. And he didn't even say it. Yeah, it was just from witnessing him as a person. I was like, this is a savant. Like, I truly I believe there's only a couple of him born every generation. Like, I that's how serious I am about how gifted he is. It's like not normal. And I was like, if that type of person can still mess up, I'm like, then it's completely beautiful and normal. Yeah. And it's like, okay, it's totally okay. So that rewired my brain just from like, and he didn't say it, he just was it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, so I just learned from like literally being in his aura, like his environment. Um, but he's also said insane things like that have just like changed my brain. Like, um, I think I I was like, it was my freshman year of high school. Okay. And I was like a supporting role in a play, a theater play. Um, it was like the princess and the pea.
SPEAKER_02Classic.
SPEAKER_07Amazing. And I was like a pants role. So I was playing um a minstrel that's normally played by a guy um in like a leotard, and I had like a loot.
SPEAKER_08It was incredible. That's actually like one of the most Gina things ever. Like you've been gesture-maxing since you were like 14. That's it.
SPEAKER_07Um, so and I had like a hat with a feather, and I was uh I opened the play by myself. So it was just a stage with me and a spotlight, nothing else, no background, no scene, stage curtain spotlight me. That's it. By myself, singing a whole song up an octave as a soprano by myself in front of a room full of people.
SPEAKER_02That's wild.
SPEAKER_07Terrifying, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And I noticed through performing that like if I ever started to like get in my head while I was on stage, that's like kind of when I would start to like maybe mess up a little. But when I would like try to go back into this like flow state where I'm I'm actually not even thinking about what I'm doing, I'm just doing and like living in the moment and performing the task, it would be flawless. And it's so weird. It I would like go on stage, do the thing, come off, and it felt like it came out of a vortex and I didn't even just do what I did. Yeah, yeah. Like it was really weird. You almost like dissociate.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_07And he was like, that's because the part of your brain that's critical of what you're doing or thinking about what you're doing is not the same part of the brain that's actually doing the performing.
SPEAKER_01That's yeah, that's that's really good.
SPEAKER_07I was like, wow.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Uh I was like, that's really profound, and that like can go into so many things.
SPEAKER_08Also, for him to be able to articulate that, like when you guys are like teenagers, like freshmen, it's insane.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, like that doesn't show you like the depth of wisdom. Like, I'm just so I just I'm so humbled and grateful that I have the friends that I do because I'm like, change just change my life, rewired my brain. Yeah, like and I think it's changed me as a person, you know what I mean? Like it made um, it made me a better doctor. It made me it's just like a like I'm totally fine with like being wrong, yeah, and failing and like messing up. Like that, I don't even really believe in failure, honestly. I think like that's just an inherent part of a process, it's literally just a step. And so that's not it's not a bad thing. Like it's supposed to happen. Um, and I think that that mindset is like so liberating.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, for sure. I mean, I always see, I mean, maybe this is like a more like clinical view or like analytical view of it, but I always see like any type of failure as just it's just data. It's just like more data to go off of.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. And that's also, I mean, this like extends into everything. Like, I don't believe in a bad tattoo. Yeah, people can fight me on that, but like I would, I might fight you on that. And I think you do, and I think I think this is why we're like yin and yang, yeah, and it's good, like we we we make each other think, yeah, absolutely, and that's like what a good friendship should do.
SPEAKER_08Well, if you want to hear something really funny, and I was having this conversation with Kate and the car, yeah. We were just talking about the artidex and and talking about stuff and and talking about you. And I I said this line where I was like, I feel like why we work so well together is that like you embody the cringe, and I embody like the part of your brain that cringes. Yeah. And I think together there's some sort of like weird like thing that happens where there's this like perfect balance. Harmony is a balance, yeah. Yeah, that's like created. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And I think um I I'm really proud of it. Not to say that you're no no no, I can I am, and I love that about myself. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I do too.
SPEAKER_07That's um, I love it because you know what it is? It's I'm not afraid. Yeah, I'm not afraid.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_07When you um, and I was saying this to Kyle the other day, I was like, the reason I'm able to do all of this stuff now, like I'm on camera, I'm recording a podcast, I'm like doing all these very like public-facing things that like normally would be like scary.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_07It is like once you've done medicine, nothing is scary.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_07Like, I have seen so much dark stuff that's true, that like sitting in front of a camera and saying something that someone thinks is dumb isn't scary. Seeing somebody like arrest in front of you from an arrhythmia and like having to code them, and everyone in the room looks at you for what to do, and you're running the room. Yeah, that is scary.
SPEAKER_08I know what you mean.
SPEAKER_07So, like being judged, not scary.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, so like having that, having those experiences, however intense they may have been, created the contrast that now allows you to say, Fuck it. Yeah, I'm just gonna do all this other shit. I don't care.
SPEAKER_07I don't really care. I just don't, it's it's not what matters. Yeah, what matters is like why I'm doing it and like the and we were talking about like the ROI, like how much like you know, mm money and time or whatever, like I'm putting into this, and it's like, could it eventually become something that is like self-funded and like sustainable financially? Yes, but that's not like the return on investment that I'm looking for. It's like an emotional, um, an emotional and artistic fulfillment return on investment. Yeah, and that's what I'm getting out of this, and it's worth every penny.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_07But but yeah, I'm I'm just because I've realized and like Kate and I had a great conversation about this. I was like, I'm just I'm not afraid of like being judged or like people thinking I'm cringe or whatever, because uh I could do everything like quote unquote perfectly, yeah. Like I could perform as a cool person, I could like do everything that I think is right, and there's still gonna be a subsect of people who are dissatisfied with that and don't like me. Yeah, like I could, you know what I mean? And so it um there's a surrender, yeah. Um, and it's it's just like again, it's just not important. Like it really, yeah. My my my job changed my brain also in a really good way. Yeah, I just don't that's not what's valuable to me. Like, I don't really care. I care about impressing like you, yeah, like people I care about and respect. A stranger being like, Gina's so cringe. I'm just like, whatever, dude, you're probably right. Like, you know, no, it's so true.
SPEAKER_08And I think there's why there's like there's so much for me to learn from you, and that I already have learned from you, like by being your friend. And I think in general, that's something that people should maybe just be more aware of in their lives. It's like, what are we learning from the people around us? What can we learn from the people around us? And I think we should strive to be around people who constantly challenge our way of thinking just by their existence. You know what I mean? It's like your existence and like things that you do, and like when we hang out and stuff, there are things that like directly challenge like my understanding of like who we are as people and stuff like that. And I think that type of stuff is super important because over a long period of time it starts to break down those like walls or like excuses that like we might make in our heads for things, yeah. And it gets to a point where I'm like, well, I really don't have an excuse anymore, you know?
SPEAKER_07It's like and like it it really is like every podcast episode's gonna go back to medicine. It just is because medicine is everything, like it's yeah, this is why I this is why I chose it. Like I knew when I was like 17 and I had this like deep existential crisis thinking about you know, like what my role in the world would be and like what would I would leave, what would my legacy be and what would I leave behind. And if you really just sit there and think for the longest time, like what are the most important things? It's like your loved ones, your like health, like health enables every single good thing. It does, it enables us to make art and enjoy art, and art makes life worth living. Yeah, um, but at the very core of that, like if you are not well, nothing else matters, right? Like if you get sick, time freezes, yeah, it stops. And and so just like realizing how it makes you realize what's important, yeah. And so Kyle and I have had an awesome dynamic over the past 18, 19 years. Cause like he was doing a Charlie XEX video one time, and I'll never forget it. This is like our funny thing that we refer to, like as a callback for this exact sort of thing. But he was on the phone with a producer and he was just like, I just heard him in the other room, and he was like, Well, what do you mean we can't get the glitter jackets? Oh my god. And I was just and he like came out of the room and he was like so stressed out, and I was like, I was like, honey, what's wrong? And he was like, They can't, you know, this fell through, or you know, and this didn't work out, and like, and that's just like how art is it just falls, it falls apart. But I was like, it's not a problem, it's just not, you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't want to get too dark, but like I've just you like you see a kid die, you know what I mean? Like I've like intubated a six-year-old that drowned in a hot tub. Yeah, I'm cool with messing up a podcast. No, I know you don't know.
SPEAKER_08It doesn't matter, like it really just doesn't, you know, for better or worse, it's given you a super unique perspective. And the fact that you're able to take that outside of your work as a doctor and apply that and like use that same understanding in other aspects of your life is really important because it would be easy, especially dealing with traumatic situations, to compartmentalize it and like the experience that you have stays in the walls of the hospital. But to carry those things with you and not just carry the weight of them, but carry like the understanding and use that for something positive, or at least flip it and take the understanding and try and use that for something positive, is like you know, turning trauma into gratitude.
SPEAKER_07Exactly.
SPEAKER_08And I think that's why it's so that's why we will continuously come back to that and keep talking about that because I think it's important in uh understanding the nature of the Artedx as a whole.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, you know, no, it definitely it does play into any everything and anything. But um, but yeah, so um taking it back to Zach, which you know, I think these long tangents are the point of these podcasts, but Zach has just been an incredible friend, creative. Like when we like, if we're getting together to like do something creative, it's like just flows. We speak the same language because I think we've been friends for so long. There's just like an inherent understanding, right? Or um there's a degree of mind reading. Um, there's a mind meld, and it's just like that's like the most like precious, valuable thing. Yeah, but yeah, insanely gifted. I also just like want to acknowledge how cool and talented his family is. Like he um and his brother Josh, who is like also an insanely gifted opera singer, have an Instagram called Brothers Page. Okay, and they like started out doing covers of stuff, and I mean. They just like exploded. Like they have like a million followers.
SPEAKER_08They're so Zach is doing the instrumental part of it, and his brother is doing the vocals.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and they well, they sing together. So like Zach will sing certain parts, they'll harmonize, Josh will sing some parts. So it's there's a lot of like ebb and flow to it. Um, this is a mind vendor. Their sister, who is adopted, okay, also musically gifted.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_07Is that not insane? She's an actress, pretty wild. An actress and an incredible singer, vocalist. She was on Broadway when she was like a kid.
SPEAKER_02Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_07She was in like Lay Miz when she was a child. Um, so I was like, how is this family just like magnetic for music? It's just like incredible.
SPEAKER_08So um, yeah, I think a lot of it, I mean, there's a million different paths you could go down to try and understand like how a dynamic or like a family of people end up being so like expressive and so creative. I think a lot of it has to do with the environment that you're in, having opportunities to express those kinds of things and also the exposure part of it too. Yeah because I've I've talked a lot about this. I actually just did like a um a little interview for the the private school I went to as a kid for their alumni newsletter. And I talked in the interview about how like the exposure that I got to certain things creatively at a young age are like I can see the pipeline from me doing these projects like in elementary school to like everything that I do now today. You know, it's like the exposure part of it is huge. Um, but that is that is really, really cool, and it's pretty uncanny that especially um being adopted. Yeah, that's insane. It's just insane.
SPEAKER_07It's like that she had like the same gift that they had, and like, and so they've all like been able to bond collaboratively and like make art together. So like the coolest family ever.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, it's really awesome.
SPEAKER_07Um, his mom owned an alpaca farm for the longest time. So cool. Incredible place, like an oasis. And then their dad is like a badass lawyer. It's the coolest family. I'm like so grateful I got to grow up in parallel. I mean, I could talk all day like about how incredible Zach is, but I sent you that clip, and I'm gonna have to do some type of like compiling of just like Arte Deck's outtake clips with audio, yeah. Um, but like how uh when he was sitting in the river, he was tuning his guitar to the frequency of the river.
SPEAKER_08Oh, yeah. I mean, if there's not like a another example of like how gifted and how fascinating Zach's brain is, like that right there, I feel like is like for anyone who doesn't know him, that's like all you need to know is that this guy should just tuning his guitar to the frequency of the river, you know.
SPEAKER_07And and the and the rhythm too. He was like explaining how like he had to slow his tempo down because otherwise it was like at odds with the rhythm and the tempo of how the river was flowing, and then also retuned his guitar to be like in a harmony with like the actual tone of the river, which to hear that, like you're hearing the tones of nature itself is like I don't know, man. He's like an elf. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03That's like pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_07I just again never would have even thought about that. Yeah, just I was like, and he was right. Like I heard after he pointed it out to me, I was like, I hear it. So grateful to have him as a friend. I'm the his biggest fan. I'm all of these people's biggest fans. Yeah, literally, you had my top song of all time. No, it's just it was you, like you won. Like you beat Lonadell right now.
SPEAKER_08And I never once told you to listen to any of anything, you know. Oh no, that was on your own.
SPEAKER_07But like every single person, I'm just like biggest, biggest fan. Yeah, and and Zach's no exception.
SPEAKER_08Shout out to Zach, man.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, no, for real. Awesome person, truly special. We're gonna have we're gonna have him on. We gotta do one.
SPEAKER_08Oh, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_07We absolutely have to do one.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that'd be really cool.
SPEAKER_07Okay, number nine.
SPEAKER_08Number nine.
SPEAKER_07Uh, Joshua McKenny.
SPEAKER_08Yes.
SPEAKER_07Um, his interview is coming out today. Yep. So it'll be up. It'll it'll already be up before this, but um also just like an incredible person. And again, somebody I met just like at the right time, at like a very formative phase of their artistic career. Yeah. And like I didn't even really fully know that. I like discovered that in our conversation, but I thought he was like so well established and just like had this whole body of work that already existed. And he kind of was divulging and explaining that when I had met him and encountered him, he was essentially orchestrating a facade that his doll already existed.
SPEAKER_08Like a fake it so you make it kind of bother.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. And and I was like, I it worked because I thought this was a real doll that was like mass produced. And he had two or three.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_07You know, but he it but it gave this impression of being just so like larger than life. Larger than life. Yeah, it's a great way to put it. Um, but yeah, that was it was really cool to to reconnect with him. The way we met and we talked about it plenty, you know, in the in his interview was just um when I was doing like PR for Melanie, um, Martinez when we were really young. Um, and she was trying to basically collaborate with a bunch of different brands and companies. She would basically just like tell me about things she liked.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Like she'd be like, Oh, I love that company that makes those shoes. I was like, dude, they will give them to you. Just ask. So I reached out to Joshua because he was making dolls and she was in this, you know, I don't know if she had written dollhouse yet or was just starting to write it, but like she was in this very like doll-driven aesthetic era.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, and so that's how that's how we met. But he basically talked about how he felt inclined for some reason to almost try to like separate himself artistically and identity-wise from the doll and just like really put her forward as her own entity. Yeah, yeah. Which I understand to a degree, like from a branding standpoint. But from my view, as like a fan of his work, I was basically telling him, I was like, you enhance her and enrich her. Like the context of you makes her even more just special and impressive. Understanding like why she was made, how she was made, who she's made by. That's what I'm like looking for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And that is so special to me. And I don't know if he fully perceived the value of himself.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, for sure. Well, the interesting part is, and I'm not sure if this is his perspective on it as well, but I think on some level, it's easy to feel like if you can remove yourself from the art, it allows people to engage with it in a different way because they can create their own meaning, their own stories, develop their own connection with it. Whereas for me personally, I think I felt like if there was too much of me, then people wouldn't be able to relate to it in their own way, or you know what I mean? Or find their own way to relate to it or connect with it because I'm essentially telling them how they should connect with it. Yeah. And maybe that's like a weird way to like break it down. But I think you probably understand the direction that I'm going with that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. No, I I I could see that. I think maybe just for me personally, as the observer, like I want to know about the person, and that's why I'm doing this project, is like I really value who the person is behind the work.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, and I can like separate the artist from the art a little bit. But um, that was just so incredible. He is just a magician and is so driven. Talk about like output, really just and I'm complimenting him on this, but he um throughout like the past decade has changed the doll so much and is just like continuously optimizing her and evolving her, like structurally. He taught himself like 3D printing, yeah, which is so cool. When he first started, he she was porcelain, like so. He literally had like a kiln in a basement and was teaching himself how to make molds and sculpt and then cast porcelain. I don't even know if I'm using the correct words because I'm not a sculptor. It's pretty wild, and then like I guess wanted to do more with his ideas and saw a barrier to maybe the materials he was working with, and then taught himself how to make things in like CAD and 3D design. Again, I might be using the wrong language, but just like the the sentiment of him being so like self-motivated and driven and good at self-teaching, yeah, yeah, is so impressive to me.
SPEAKER_01Really impressive, yeah.
SPEAKER_07And just like also the way he's like reinterpreted the doll, made her an entire universe, world building, that whole thing. She's she's taken shape in purses and masks and jewelry, yeah, and and hopefully shoes, I pray. She's just um like the way that he's like reinterpreted her and expressed her through different sorts of like mediums and channels is fascinating and so cool.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, absolutely. Like rather than the doll being a product of creating in one medium, the doll has now like become the medium, expressed various things in all different aspects, you know, which is really cool. And one of the things I think in the interview, just listening, that really stood out to me was how grateful Josh was for the connection that you guys built early on, and for just again, you being like a super fan and like opportunities that that came about and different things like that, due to you being like, I really like this person and I want everyone to know how cool. Like, yeah, yeah. I want everyone to know how cool they are.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, man. When he said that, like, I like, I don't know if you could tell, I like almost cried and I got like flustered and I forgot to say thank you. And I was like really ruminating on that, but I was just like it like struck me like it was like an arrow to the heart.
SPEAKER_08Well, that's like the biggest compliment.
SPEAKER_07It's the highest, it's just like makes me feel seen. And again, I'm like looking for mirrors to be respected by someone you respect, just so nice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_07And he is incredible, just like one of the best people, so gifted, just I think came out of the womb, an artist through and through.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's really cool.
SPEAKER_07So honored that he was willing to do this. Just very, very grateful for his his friendship. Yeah, that was that was a blast.
SPEAKER_08And of course, the interview will already be out. So if you haven't gotten a chance to please go check out the interview, really, really cool, in-depth interview with but yeah, number 10.
SPEAKER_07I'm so excited to talk about Hannah.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I know. I know this is like a big, I know this is big for you. I can tell that like your inner child is just like beaming that this this was able to happen.
SPEAKER_07Like, truly incredible. Um so Hannah Beth is a model. I would also say, uh, I don't know if she did styling formally, but like that's how her brain works. Super creative with outfits, style icon. Yeah. Blogger. She wrote a book on MySpace. She was like the queen of MySpace. That whole era, the Tumblr generation. She was like the CEO.
SPEAKER_08True icon.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, the CEO of MySpace. But uh, but yeah, I have like a very distinct. We can talk maybe if you have a similar thing, but weird formative memories for some reason stand out in your mind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I remember being like 13 or 14, and I was on MySpace, and I came across the photographer Dirk Mai on MySpace, and he had like a photo shoot of Hannah and with Hannah. I loved it so much. I looked at it and I was like, I want to do that. Like, they are so cool. He was working out of a studio called Box 8. But yeah, Hannah had a blog. I would look at her outfits, buy the same shoes she had. I like shaved the side of my head when she shaved the side of her head. She was like my Madonna. Like, you know what I mean? Like my style icon. I just loved I loved everything about her visual aesthetic and who she was. And I worked a warped tour tent.
SPEAKER_08It's funny. Do you remember what year it was?
SPEAKER_07Um, well, it was before I met Kyle, so it must have been pre-2009. So like 2005, six, maybe.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that's wow. Those those were like the golden years for like warp tours. Warp tour was like peak.
SPEAKER_07You didn't it like that? Was where you wanted to be. That's what that's the like where you wanted to play. I mean, Coachella was probably also in the picture, but it was like on that tier. Yeah, it was up there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_07Um, but I worked the van's tent.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_07I don't even know how I got in there, guys. I don't remember. It was I knew someone who knew someone, but um, I was like in the van's tent, and they were like, Hannah Beth's coming to like sign autograph. Um, do you mind like helping out?
SPEAKER_01And I was like, Of course.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_07I was like, Yeah, this is sick. Um, and so I don't, I think I said like two words to her. I was like, here you go, handed her a stack of paper. And um anyway, I reached out to her to do the artidex and she was like super down. And I was like, Great, this is awesome. Showed up at her apartment, and first of all, it was like her boyfriend's birthday that night, and she like still did it because like he was gonna be coming home from work, which kind of amazing. Like, I feel like most people would just be like, No, it's my boyfriend's birthday, exactly. And she was like, Yeah, come over. Um, and I was like, okay. And it was so funny because she was like, Oh, yeah, like we've hung out before, right? And I was like, No, Hannah. Um, and it's because we have like we have a lot of mutual friends. Rachel Lynch, number one, I hate blonde, her and Hannah know each other. And then like Aileen, my friend, who's a makeup artist, also knows her. So we have like crossing overlapping worlds and spheres, social spheres, but I had never hung out with her. But it was so funny. She's like, Oh, really? She's like, I feel like I know you. And I was like, No, like we actually have never hung out, but like we can now. And so I thought that was like it was an interesting cosmic luck. Yeah. That like she probably said yes because she had thought that we had already hung out. But I was like, Well, God bless you thought that because I don't know if you would have said yes if you didn't know.
SPEAKER_08The interesting thing there too is that you know, a lot of people will always tell you, like, oh, never meet your idols, never meet your idols. Because very often the people who we admire the most, like when you actually do meet them in person, there's always some sort of like the magic that seems to fade away, or something like that. It seems like if anything, you going to LA and like spending this time with Hannah Beth, it only enhanced, it didn't take away the magic, it only like proved the magic to be real. Yeah. To like be in her space and be like, oh wow, this really is who she is. Yeah. She really is as cool as I always thought she was. Exactly.
SPEAKER_07Oh my god, it was so satisfying. And I I've said this to Kyle and friends too. I was like, this project I'm doing is a little dangerous for that exact reason. Yeah. Because maybe I am wrong about someone, or like maybe I like reach out to someone and then like ghost me or something, and then it kind of changes how you see their stuff. And I was like, I'm kind of playing with fire a little bit and putting myself out there, being vulnerable. Do you want to be friends? And then it's just like crickets. I'm just like, you know, it hurts.
SPEAKER_08But uh but again, that also speaks to you having that freedom and not caring about the judgment part of it, you know what I mean? These are people who inspire you deeply on a deep level, and being totally cool with just being like, Yeah, I'm gonna reach out to them. They might ghost me or like they might tell me to fuck off, but I'm still gonna do it.
SPEAKER_07Like I mean, you might as well. Yeah, you'll miss every shot you don't shoot, right? And and again, like the reason I usually like them is because like I feel like I connect with them and like I relate to them and that there's something similar happening. And but yeah, uh, stepping into Hannah's apartment was like life-changing. It's essentially a museum of 2005. She has like 10,000 billion plushies, yeah, which we talked about on the last pod. We did, we showcased, and just like she's just so nice, she's so kind. And she had given me one of her books, and I read it on the plane, and it was basically her biography, and it's like extremely vulnerable. But she talks about how much she's been through, and it's just you would never know how much she's gone through, given how cheerful she is, yeah, and just like fun and sweet. She's like, Oh, do you want something to drink? Like, what can I get? Like, fundamentally kind, and it was like I hit the lottery. Sometimes the people that you connect with their work are like not the people you connect with as people. Like you're saying, I I feel like I have a good inclination for it, and that's like what this project is about. Where like I'm like, I think I like you and your work. Like, there's more, there's more to you than just your work, and there's something there that I'm connecting with. But yeah, it was like it was just amazing. It felt very fateful. It just is so sweet. If I could like have my 13 or 14-year-old self, and if I told them that, they would be so stoked.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that was my next gonna be my next like a little tidbit too. Is I was curious, like when you think in retrospect, who what your understanding or the role that somebody like that played in your life at that age, like looking back now, is it is it interesting to think back of what your perspective was then and what your perspective is now, and sort of like how far you've come as a person or the ways that you've grown and the ways that they still impact you now.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, it feels full full circle in a really weird way. It's like it feels very harmonious. It felt like uh getting like a big warm blanket wrapped around you when you're like cold. Yeah, it was just like so comforting. I was like, wow, this person who I thought was amazing is actually even better than I ever could have hoped for. Yeah, because that doesn't that doesn't always happen. No, it really doesn't. I was so grateful. We actually just like truly connected as people.
SPEAKER_01It's very cool.
SPEAKER_07I she even said that she's like, I wish you lived here because like we really just connected, and that's so nice to have someone that again you admire, and then like it's also your people. Just really nice. And I hate like also this is just a kind of a side segue when people are like, I don't have any influences.
SPEAKER_08Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yes, you do.
SPEAKER_08I don't I don't, I'm not, I'm not about that either.
SPEAKER_07That is so like I don't know, like you think you came up with everything on your own. Like you have influences and you should own them and be proud of them and and celebrate them. Yeah, and Hanabeth's awesome. And she totally influenced me when I was a teenager, and she's a really great, cool person, and I'm so lucky she did this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07So that was childhood like bucket list checkbox for me.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I think it's important to talk about your influences and who inspires you and things like that. It's weird that anyone would want other people to think that they are not influenced by people because there is a really like beautiful feedback loop that happens when someone inspires you and then you express that that person inspired you, and then they know that their work is impacting people. Yeah, you know, it's like if people hide that and they're like, oh, I'm not influenced by anything, you know?
SPEAKER_07It's like I'm laughing because I'm thinking of um uh speaking of like cringe, vulnerable, letting people know you impacted them. Like when you used to like send me like a song or a track, or I would like record myself in the car, like headbanging to your songs, like um, and I would just like send it to you. It was like to show you like this is what it looks like. Like you're you're affecting people, and people are like doing this in their car and like listening to what you're making and like having the time of their life.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, which is really cool because it's something that as like an artist, you you can hear anecdotally about people's experiences with interacting with or like their experiences with your work, but most of the time you're not directly seeing it. Now, there is something unique about music where in the situations where I performed, I can see live reactions from people, but I think how people react and and interact with art when they are by themselves is is much more uh intimate and meaningful than how it is when they're in a large crowd of people. Now, that's not to say that people's experiences at shows are not like life-changing. Like I have been to shows that were like incredible experiences, but there is something that's different about having an experience in a public space where you're around other people versus you just experiencing listening to something in your car by yourself or viewing something at home on your computer or you know, and uh it's so funny because this like segues into like Evan really quick, just like as a sidebar, we'll save you know his whole story for the next pod.
SPEAKER_07But um, like sending me the tracks and stuff, and then like me writing a whole treatment on it. I was like literally choreographing a video idea like in my room as I was folding laundry, and I was like, I almost want to like video this and send it to him, right? Um, because it must it's so funny. You wouldn't picture somebody as like playing your music in their house, folding laundry and choreographing an entire dance and video by themselves. Like that's the beauty of it, and that that's just showing like impact of the inspiration.
SPEAKER_08No, it is cool, and I feel like more people should make an effort to share those things with the artists that they love. More artists should make an effort to give people opportunities to express those things because there's a lot of artists who don't interact with the people who enjoy their stuff, yeah, to enjoy their stuff. Um, and and I really think it's I think it's a loss. Yeah, I think it's always worth it, no matter what level you're at, to like engage with people and to meet them on their level, understand like how are you engaging with this art? You know, I mean, not just like whether you're enjoying it or not, but like when are you enjoying it? What kind of experiences are you uh and memories are you creating like when you're enjoying this?
SPEAKER_07Exactly. Gonna I want to make like a t-shirt or something, maybe for Artodex at some point that says like your SoundCloud links are safe with me.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still think that's a great idea.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, it's like really funny. Yeah, I've had you, McKenzie, Evan now, other musicians, Zach, of course, yeah, like send me like unreleased stuff or music or whatever. I am y'all's biggest fan. Yeah, you know what I mean? And I have the um context of both being your friend, being a fan of the things that you make, and then also can maybe give you really valuable loving feedback too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_07Like as a sounding board. Cause I also I really believe in people. I know what you're capable of too. And yeah, I I do think it's really beneficial for artists to surround yourself with people who like love what you're doing. Like that's there's nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_07Super valuable.
SPEAKER_08Who love what you're doing, but also who aren't afraid to be honest with you. I think is like another side of that that's important because it is easy to be around a bunch of people who just like will champion everything you do, but will like not call you out on can be better. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um and I think a yes, man. That's not valuable.
SPEAKER_08Exactly, which happens a lot with people. Yeah. And maybe it's because you know, when there's that disconnect and you're in close proximity or connected with someone who you admire, it's very easy to just say yes to everything they do because you admire them and you want them to trust you. And you know what I mean? But at the same time, I think there's more value in the honesty, whether they take your advice or not is not important. But it's knowing that if I send you something, you're gonna be honest with me about how you feel about it as a fan of what I do.
SPEAKER_07Correct. I think that's actually more loving and valuable to it's more respectful to the artists too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Like that's actually if you're just saying like everything is absolutely perfect, then maybe it's there's really no value. But I think also just like people can feel where you're coming from too. So when like you're a fan of somebody's work and you're also feedbacking them, it feels different than just pure criticism.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_07It feels like it's building something instead of it's formative instead of destructive. But yeah, so I think you gotta be friends with people who love what you're doing. Yeah, it's very important. Yeah, you might stop if you don't.
SPEAKER_01That is that is very true.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so yeah, Annabeth, that was life-changing.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I mean, what else can be said?
SPEAKER_07Truly, yeah, just an awesome, awesome, awesome person. And another thing, too, um, that I was thinking about today, you know the Dallas Cowboys TV show? No, it's on Netflix.
SPEAKER_08You're losing me.
SPEAKER_07Oh, okay. Well, whatever. Uh there's the cheer, the cheerleaders on Netflix.
SPEAKER_08Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Now I know.
SPEAKER_07Okay, sorry, I probably should have just like led with that. There's um a girl called Reese, named Reese, on the team on the team. She's phenomenal, insane, just like performer. But she has a really sweet voice, and so does Hannah, and so does Rachel. And um even in med school, one of my best friends, Brittany Daltal, talked like a Barbie. They sound kind of like this, like they kind of just talk in this way that's like sort of just like you know, a cheerful inflection, but like very girly, sort of Barbie. And I sometimes think that people don't really listen to what they're saying because of that, and like they might like dismiss them or like diminish them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07If you listen to the content of what some people are saying, it's like so wise.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And I think that that's kind of connecting back to like seeing people for who they are and like really witnessing them, seeing them and listening to them, and trying to overcome judgment and like cover doesn't match the book inside, and people are more than how they seem, not judging them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Like Britney Daltal, my friend from med school, she uh is so smart, top of the class, store scores on every test. And if you talk to her, she'd be like, hey, what's up? And she would just like make it look like it's nothing.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Well, I think there's something to be said for like how we understand people, and there is always room for expansion on like the ways in which we understand people. And I think a lot of people, it's not to say that they don't understand these people, but I think there are certain like blocks that people put up, whether it's the way somebody talks or the way somebody dresses or different things like that. And I actually saw a great video on this recently, but I feel like what's happening is they are interacting with the version of the person that they have created in their head based on their judgment. So based on someone's voice or the way that they talk, someone gets an idea of who they are in their head, they interact with them based on that, but they're not actually interacting with them based on who they like really are behind that, you know? Yeah, it's it's so important that we view people for more than just like who they are outwardly.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I feel like that's like part of the thesis of my life, to be honest. And I think that's like why I like dressed really crazy in a way, because I'm almost like leaning into it. Cause like I don't look like a doctor. People would talk down to me, you know, and like make assumptions about who I am and my intelligence or what I was capable of or what I do for a little. Like you can tell when people have these like preconceived notions of who you are. And it it used to bother me. It really bothered me. It really did. Cause I was like, you're not even talking to me. Like, you're not, you didn't even give me a chance. Exactly. You didn't give me a chance. You just thought I was dumb, you know, and that's and that happened to me so much. And I almost like wanna, I like lean into it on purpose now. Yeah, like I'm like, grills, let's dye my hair, let's get platform shoes, like because I want to shatter that.
SPEAKER_08I mean, you're you're ch you're actively challenging people now, yes, you know. Uh you're challenging people and their ways of thinking and things like that, just with your like existence. I'm trying, which is pretty fucking cool, honestly.
SPEAKER_07I'm trying.
SPEAKER_08It's pretty like badass. That's it.
SPEAKER_07Thank you. No, I'm just trying. And it's because I have like I feel like it comes from empathy and love and respect for people. Like, I'm gonna dress like a rapper so that you know that a rapper could become a doctor.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, no, it's very true. You know what I mean? And it's it's it can be polarizing, but I think I get that the greatest things are always the most polarizing things, and like the most impactful things are the most polarizing always. It's like you want to make people in a way, it's almost more beneficial for you to make force people to have an opinion rather than for them to just be neutral on you at all times.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. I'm trying to like be a walking lesson, and I know that that might sound like kind of pretentious and like a way, but it's it's coming from a loving place because I want people to see that um what people look like doesn't have anything to do with what they're capable of.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I don't think that doesn't sound pretentious at all to me. It sounds very real, honestly.
SPEAKER_07It is it is real, but like saying like I'm trying to be a walking lesson. Yeah, it like it doesn't like read well. But it's coming from a loving place because like when I see someone, I try to like very much just be like, yeah, that could be um, I don't know, I'm trying to like a savant painter. Like, I don't know. Like, I just I try not to um judge people too quickly. Like we had our curtains installed, and the guy that that came to the door was like, he looked really young. And Kyle's like, doesn't that guy like look kind of young? Like, does he know what he's doing? And I was like, I bet he's a G. I was like, he knows everything there is to know about hanging curtains. Like, you just think he looks young, but he's about to pop off upstairs right now and put up our shades. So, like, you know, you know, just don't judge a book by its covers. Yeah, the philos it's just the philosophy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_07So, but um, all right, we're we're wrapping up. We think you have anything else? Did we miss anything?
SPEAKER_08You know, I don't think we missed anything. We actually like blew through all of our topics this time and like covered everything we needed to pretty well. Um again, as always, I urge everybody to like check out the artists that we're talking about. I think it'll give you a better understanding of the conversations that we're having. I mean, you should already be checking it out.
SPEAKER_07I I really hope so. Yeah, that's what this is for. It's to like celebrate these people and showcase them and like them. So um, so yeah, please check out everyone that that we've discussed, and we will put their social links in the description of the podcast, as as always.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, but we have uh more interviews coming up, more trips, and uh, you know, we should definitely try and do some documenting of these uh these trips that were going on and things like that. Another layer, another layer because it's it's exciting, and there's there's a lot, a lot that's happening with Artidex in a short amount of time. Insane amounts. It's it's got legs, it's got it's it's starting to skip.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, it's got a little pep in its step.
SPEAKER_08It's got pep in its step, it's it's moving right now. So yeah, it's uh exciting times seeing seeing what happens next. I know.
SPEAKER_07I'm so excited. We're gonna have great come along with us on the journey. Yep. All right. Well, thanks for joining us as always.
SPEAKER_08As always, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Appreciate you. I'll see you next time. And we'll see you next time. Peace.
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